Mick is my 16 month old Chesapeake. I just got him back from 4 months in Texas with a pro handler, the top handler in the state of SD. I sent him with the pro because of our SD winters and the fact that I could not get Mick force broke. When he came back from Texas, it looked like he should have stayed home. Mick was not even close to being where I was hoping he would be. He'd bring a dummy back, but before he would get to you, he would stop, lay down, and start to chew on it. The pro said he was a very difficult dog to work with because he did not want to please. My question is: where do I go from here? Has anyone experienced something similar?
Ken Quirk

wow, that is too bad....Did the trainer tell you this was an issue while the dog was in training? Seems like within a month or so, a good pro should have a pretty good idea as to whether they have a dog they can work with....

Was this trainer knowledgable with chessies?

Juli

I am curious if you did any work with the pro, or if you just dropped off and picked up your dog....

A friend of mine sent her dog to be ff - and he was - but she had some issues with him following the fetch command when she gave it...This stemmed from her not doing enough transitioning the dog back to working for her, vs the trainer...She needed to do a little ff work herself, so that the dog understood he had to listen to her too, not just the trainer...don't know if this might be part of your problem or not, but worth mentioning if it helps.

Juli

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Originally posted by Crossfire Hurricane:

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I just got him back from 4 months in Texas with a pro handler, the top handler in the state of SD

OK I'll take a nibble.........

It sure would be good to know who this famous person is Is he a member of the PRTA ?

As for the dog .....bummer. Did this trainer take your money for 4 months and then tell you this when you picked him up ?

FF isn't rocket science.....

Actually, I don't think it does much good to name names. Save that stuff for a PM where you can explain why you had a bad experience with Trainer X and why.
What we need to do is help Quirk get Mick to a point he can finish the job on his own. A couple questions....Quirk, when you got the dog back, did you work with the pro to make sure you're on the same page with commands and enforcment of them? I got one back in Apr., before the job was really finished but the friend that FF her had something come up. She was absolute perfection for him, ran straight out, straight back, sat crisply at heel and gave up the duck willingly. When I ran her she reverted right back to her old keep away games until I had him show me exactly how he did corrections. Now she wasn't the easiest pupil in the world either, she does want to please but she's a scheming little drama queen. So it was just easier for him to tell me what where the best corrections to use.

Some CBRs that might seem aloof and indifferent to a trainer will do better for their owner. Maybe Mick is one of those. But regardless dogs don't think like we do so he's not going to automatically be perfect for you when he was sullen with the trainer. But if you train him fairly and consistently he might try harder and be more enthusiastic about his work for you.

Thanks for replying back. My trainer is in his 60's and has had Chessies in the past, not many as he makes his living with labs. I knew Mick would be a problem because I couldn't get him force broke. I wanted to send him to Texas force broke so the training could be maximized. After the first month the trainer was unable to say he was force broke. Mick was difficult to say the least. Not a tough dog, just unwilling to go along. FF is not rocket science until you have a dog like Mick. When I picked Mick up at the trainer's kennel, I asked him to show me where Mick is at in his training. Mick had trouble with puppy marks. The trainer knocked off one month of training expense because he felt I overpaid, but he had the time in on him. If you have any more questions, I would be happy to reply. I picked Mick up at 49 days. He's been in my home. I've taken him to work with me each day. I've thrown plenty of bumpers for him, but he doesn't seem to get it.

Force fetching can be different with each dog. Did you trainer use the ear pinch and work the dog on a table or did he use the paw and a little harness between the front toes? Some dogs that don't get it with the ear pinch do get it with the foot method.
There are some Chesapeake folks on this board who train professionally as well. Might want to look for someone that has the breed as well as can train it.

Could be Mick just needs a break....If training was very stressful he may be sour on it...hard to say without actually seeing him...

And, it could be that he just isn't cut out to be a hunting dog...again, no one knows that except for you and the trainer....time sometimes is all it takes for a dog's switch to go on...Does he take any interest in birds at all???

Juli

How was Mick before he went to be FF, was he an agressive retriever or lackadasical? If he did not show a burning desire to retrieve then no amount of force fetch will give it to him. Sounds more to me that your statement that "he just doesn't get it"" says it all" If he is does not live to retrieve then accept that and enjoy him for what he is. Not what you want him to be, I hope this is not to hard, I don't mean it to be, but if what you wrote is the way he is, then start over with a new pup. You will be happier and so wil Mick.
Marty

The only thing i can see that went wrong here is that if the dog would not FF, why did the trainer not tell you the problem and keep the dog for 4 mo.? If this trainer pushed the dog to hard during FF he could very easily have broken this dog also. A good trainer needs to evaluate the amount of pressure an individual dog can take in one training. I don't know correct me if i am wrong. I am going through this right now and am having great results so far.

Well, you guys may recall that I sent Annie off to a trainer for 4 mos. for FF and started marks and got her back broken and fried in an e-collar.

She was nuts to retrieve before I sent her especially on birds, so I brought her back using birds and now you can't even tell there was a problem. All the FF'ing stuck and the dog is a retrieving fool again.

I just played with her until I found what worked to bring her back and gave her lots of encouragement and motivation to get her going again....but the birds did the final work!!

Kathy Miller

I will agree with Marty , FF is not rocket science nor is it a magic wand . It will never replace desire , maybe he wants to be just your friend .

I have a friends lab here that sounds a lot like Mick . When my friend brought him out i threw a bumper and he just stood there looked at it and ran off the other way . I tried dead and shackled birds with the same result .

I told my friend take him home , but he insisted i keep him , we are in the 4th month and he is through FH , FF , and we are FTP , BUT he will NOT run no matter how much preasure . I called him and told him he could hunt him , but he was slower than a 3 legged sea turtle . But he said he loved him and as long as he would go pick up the chicken he would be happy .

I wish you well with Mick .

Sounds to me like Mick may be pressured and forced out. As a few others have indicated, he may just need some time to form positive associations with retrieving. I have one girl, similar in age to your boy, that has a very sensitive personality and struggled for a long time with pressure. With patience and creativity she's now working at a senior level and loving it. She even tolerates pressure when needed. Too much pressure can cause some dogs to shut down and pout. The behaviors you described sound to me like avoidance, not necessarily a lack of desire. I would try making retrieving a fun game (like with young pups) and gradually phase back in formality. Also, try training in new areas where your pup has not yet formed any associations, and make sure the experience is positive.

Leif

If it was my pup, I would go out and just have some fun. Try a bunch of puppy retrieves, mixed with working on obedience. But keep it all up beat and fun. And keep us updated.

Josh

Muddy Twelve Gauge

any updates on the pup?

Without seeing the dog or really knowing his training back round it is very hard to figure out the problem. To much free advice. Everyone who posts here has a marking wonder but very few Master Hunters or qual all age. Not every dog is really a marking wonder or a dog that can take pressure. Junior hunters are at a stage where there is very very little pressure in training or marks. Blind work separates the men from the boys and the pressure begins.

Reach out to Butch Goodwin in Idaho.
I'm not sure if he is still training dogs though.

Good Luck, and be patient!

Malcolm

quote:

Reach out to Butch Goodwin in Idaho.
I'm not sure if he is still training dogs though.

My cousin lives across the road from Butch, so I posted her to ask her if Butch is taking dogs in and she said very few, and usually only the ones he's bred.

Kathy Miller