Are there any ways to "toughen up" a soft dog? I'm working with a 1 year old that has some great drive, instinct, and marking ability, but is TERRIBLY SOFT. He is fearless, and deals with pain very well (playing, injuries, briars, etc) but his reaction to discipline is to shut off. He also does not deal well with situations in which two other dogs are fighting/harassing each other.

hey Todd,
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DD

I'm not the most experienced dog handler but your dog sounds pretty perfect for training. It sounds like pleasing you is very important to him. As a trainer you must make sure because he is soft that he be very successful when you train him. In addition, he may not react well to collar corrections as opposed to a simple "NO". Rather than toughen him up which might be very difficult, maybe you should re- evaluate how you train him. Your job as a trainer is to teach and figure out the best method to teach your dog. There is a big difference between correction and discipline and you need to figure out the best method to correct. This could mean making your teaching simpler or you might just have to go back because he doesn't understand the concept you are working on. This is just my opinion and I could be wrong. But if your not a pro you can't wash the dog out and go on to your next dog so you must be very opened minded when training.

Well said, Moscowitz. It has been my experience that Chessies will use anything that works when "Negotiating" what they will and will not do. If you have a set way you wish to convey your requirements for performance, and the dog does not buy into your scheme, you will most likely need to do one of two things: either identify what in your method causes the "Softness", and ammend so as to accomodate the learning functions of your dog, or get a dog that will learn as YOU require.
"Toughening" a youngster, may be possible, but you may well be instilling other less desireable characteristics which will make the dog at three one you, or your Hunting buddies won't wish to share time .

Moskowitz and Phil,

Thanks for the advice. I began thinking that this pup learned "softness" before I ever got to him....that is he was "babied" and allowed to avoid discipline by acting hurt or submissive. I had gone through this with Oz at first, but after force-fetch it was never a problem again.

Todd

Todd

Sound to me like soft is good - he is tough where you want him to be

No, soft is bad...raising my voice can shut him down...a whack (not a beating, but just a slap on the backside) with a heeling stick can shut him down...my older dog recovers nearly instantly, a nick with the collar gets his attention, and he continues with the training...this pup responds to a nick with a collapse...he won't continue to perform. He's just flat out soft on corrections/discipline. But he is physically brave.

Maybe a better way to put it is that he does not deal with stress very well. (Failure to please the master, conflict between dogs, confusion)

Todd

I like soft dogs. Mine is soft, has a lot of drive and is easy to train. Some people don't like soft dogs. When you correct a soft dog for something they know is wrong they shouldn't shut down. Unless your correction is too harsh.
I question the dogs drive if he shuts down on a low correction.
I rarely use the collar for corrections unless it is blatant, and she knows she is doing wrong. Usually a "no" gets the correction I need. Build momentum and success in your training while running simple marks that also have challenging concepts like rentries without chance of cheating and follow with a challenging cheaty mark. The momentum of your success should carry over when you correct on the challenging mark. I don't claim to know it all but these are things that work for my dog.

Hey Todd,
Before I do give you the respons,what do YOUlike,tailormade or custommade?
A soft dog is the best thing you can get!!!!
Or are you a warrior who wants to fight and to rule his dog?
If you're not able to look at your own performance and the reaction of this puppy,plse sell the puppy.It's not the puppy that's soft,somebody has to train the owner here!!!
I can speak about this because I did the same thing as you do now,namely, blowing up a very fine,nice,soft and gentle dog of wich I didn't understand his character(my website =www.lfg.be/dgb/ and read about Balou!!!) and after several years I know that he would have become the top of the top FT Chesapeakes in Europe!!
Mind you and think about your ideas about Brownddogsa,you and they deserve it!!
DD

Nighttrain,

You hit the problem on the head, and said what I meant to say: Correcting a dog for something they know is wrong shouldn't shut them down, provided that the correction isn't too harsh...when "No!" is too harsh, there is a problem.

What I am striving for is a dog that can be corrected a multitude of ways... voice, riding crop, or collar (although I am still primarily Amish, and will chase a dog and drag him back to the infraction area for corrections).

The two oldest dogs that I train can be corrected in any of the above ways, and then rebound to continue training. The pup doesn't handle voice or physical corrections nearly as well as the other two, however he does alright with the collar.

Maybe what I'm saying is that he gets his feelings hurt very easily.



DD,

Custom made.

Currently I'm raising and training 3 brown dogs. Some dogs are just better at dealing with pressure than others. In fact, the complaint that I hear from many of the FTers I train with is that most Chessies are just too soft. I am not referring to the ability to handle a certain level of pain...that isn't the issue. The issue is how quickly can a dog recover from making a mistake and being disciplined for it? The labs I watch train typically don't miss a beat... granted 2 are AFC's and all are QAA, so they often go through training sessions without a nick, but some days they have more current run through them than a Texas Murderer. My two oldest Chessies are the same way, to a lessor extent. They can stand multiple corrections without shutting off their minds. The pup has trouble with single verbal orrections.

Todd,
I like you beiing so very honest,and you have caracter.
See your pup as an upportunity how to do it in another way.
It will cost you more time and at the end I like to hear from what you did achieve with this puppy.This puppy is giving YOU a mirror to look in.
many greetings

DD

Todd;

One characteristic thing about this breed I have noticed is that they are physically tough and mentally soft. Something that I have explained to many, many people just getting started with this breed is that by using verbal correction in an effort to be "nice" to the dog, it actually creates more problems. That's because verbal corrections and corporal physical corrections are percieved as personal. The dog sees you as being displeased. This will wimp them out.

I'd say, work diligently on obedience with positive/inducive methodology. get the basics taught first, then start introducing pressure, first with a flat collar, then choke chain, then prong collar. Ramp up your expectations slowly. Read this dog. He will tell you when he is ready for the next level of pressure. The key ingredient is to NOT MAK IT PERSONAL. Zip your lip. Shut up. Don't scold, nag, badger, anything like that. Give your commands, and make your corrections in an almost offhand way, so that it seems as though the corrections come "from the sky", rather than from you.

As your dog develops the ability to respond to pressure, you will see a change in his demeanor. At that point, I'd CC and then move on to FF, etc. Dogs that are responsive in this way are a joy to train. You will find that the need to correct will fade as the dog's understanding of pressure increases. It's an inverse relationship: the more the dog understands and responds to properly applied pressure, the less the dog will need pressure applied.

Lisa

Lisa,
the prong collar,forced fetch.....don't believe it ....I'm a "amish"guy!!!! The matter of time counts,if you get a dog from a well known hunting- or fieldtrialstrain that's a good start, give yourself and your dog enough TIME to know eachother and looking at your dog's behaveour,that means as an owner or trainer do I understand enough of a dog to know how and what a dog does or doesn't and SEE THERE THE LACK of the most of the owners or trainers in MY mind.
With Tritronics,in my mind,you can achieve something,with relationship with my dog anything(or is it everything,that's always difficult for me,sorry!!??)
The story you are telling Lisa is outstanding,thanks,(and I hope a lot owners and trainers will read it)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DD

Hey, DD, I have trained several dogs "Amish" style. It's all about building the dog's confidence. You have to grow to love mistakes, as they are an opportunity to teach!

One of the worst things that gets in the way of any dog trainer is to personalize. "The So-and-So is just blowing me off!" or "The SOB is giving me the finger." Dogs don't think that way! It puts the trainer in an adversarial frame of mind, and results in poorly timed, poorly administered corrections. Then the dog either starts acting stubborn, tunes the trainer out, or wimps out, because they don't understand why the trainer is angry with them.

If you allow the dog to make mistakes, and teach the dog how to handle mistakes him/herself, then they learn to be more confident, and how NOT to make so many mistakes. They learn to relax and start to think for themselves how to do what you want. It doesn't matter if you are doing field work, obedience, agility, whatever, no matter what kind of training "tool" you use, electric collar or otherwise.

Lisa