I'm having trouble getting my dog, Kingston, to perform the heel and come command consitently. I find it most difficult when he is excited or distracted. Does anyone have any tips on teaching the heel and come command with distractions?

put a long rope on him and first make sure that he is very good at the commands when there are no distractions - he should do this in at least 5 different places.... (ie. different fields, ball fields, etc that do not have other people, dogs, or other distractions)....

Then start incorporating different things...perhaps a friend walking several yards away, or standing swinging a bumper or bouncing a ball...

gradually increase the type and excitement level of the various distractions.

Always make it fun, and make sure he is successful when you are done - even if you have to go back to a very simple set-up...

Juli

Yes, first of all, don't call him when you feel he won't come as you just reenforce that he doesn't have to come when you call him. If not in a fenced in area, try not to turn him loose, i.e. keep him on a long line. Carry treats with you when you are in a situation where he might not come, and use them liberally with lots of praise every time he comes. If you don't have treats, call him using "here" instead of come and start running in the other direction. Always use a happy tone of voice with him, i.e. don't BARK commands at him as your tone may indicate to him that you are mad, and always make sure to praise him. Don't call him to come when you are mad at him.

And, also follow the advice that Juli posted you in her post.

Kathy Miller
Sandy Oak Chesapeakes

1st, Welcome Aboard and Enjoy the Ride!! Ben (Wiley), glad you made it to the boards.

Great advice so far. So I will add to it abit. Use a 'check lead' (can range from 15-50 feet). Start off short and increase
length as Kingston demonstrates a willingness to comply.

Important - do you intend to participate in HT (hunt tests) or FT (field trials) with Kingston? Hunting with him?
Or is he more considered a 'pet'? (important because the "terminology" used to recall and send him off are different.)

I'll deal with the issues seperately. When recalling (come), at first always use the same command (word). Using different
words (ie come, here, by side, etc) can become "confusing" to Kingston. Until he becomes efficient at responding, you want to make sure he fully understands what you want and mean (biggest problem most people face - clearly letting the dog know exactly what they are asking the dog to do). Also, do not yell commands, or when angry or frustrated. Often people repeat the commands over and over when the dog does not respond. They become louder and more intense. This often leads to the dog preceiving the situation as a 'bad thing' and will become hesitant to come. Also, when recalling, esp when the dog can view (see) you, bend over slightly at the waist. Standing straight can often cause the dog to hesitate or become fearful to return. Bending relaxes the dog and gives the impression of being welcomed. Also praise every attempt with praise by petting, making a 'big deal' at first. Again, it relaxes the dog and helps to instill the dog did something right or correctly. Start with 8-10 feet of leash. Recall to come in every angle - straight ahead, sides, and from the rear (behind dog). Increase length in increments as Kingston complies.

What type of collar or harness do you use? Any issues walking him? (ie pulling, inattentiness, etc).
I'll address more issues after learning more from what you are requiring/need.
Until then, Best Regards, Charlie

Ok, I am in no way an expert at training. But I just went through this a few months back, and I would like to pass on my experiences to you.

After a strong foundation of the commands are implanted through a ton of training, I found that a prong collar and a long lead worked wonders for my pup. I stayed very consistent, and I never gave him a command that couldn't be reinforced if need be. Then I slowly transition to a shock collar, and collar conditioned my pup. Thats just my method, but like I said I am no expert. To me the key is never giving a command that can't be reinforced, and slowly step up the pressure as the dog is learns. Good luck to you, and be patient. It will all work out


Josh

Excellent advice Josh. If everyone kept that standard we would have some very obedient dogs. We teach using the same method.
Teach
Force
Reinforce
If you tell a dog to "come" we use "here" you need to be able to correct him or force him if he doesn't obey. Whether it's a long lead, collar or etc you need to be able to control the dog. We give our young dogs one chance. The second comes with a correction.

I would certainly reccommend, as others have, maintaining control with a long lead or check cord.Your next task will be to place the dog in or create those "exiting situations" with you in control. Demanding immediate and accurate response everytime, including retrieving, casual walks, training sessions.....
Since you don't have basic obedience mastered at this time IMHO it is okay for the dog to wear an e-collar but leave the transmitter in the box. You are a LONG way from pushing buttons.

Good luck and have fun

Tim

This message has been edited. Last edited by: timothy carrion,

I also use a teach, force, reinforce method of training. I like to use a prong collar for initial teaching in a variety of environments, then a pinch collar as needed to reinforce, and finally a crop or heeling stick to transition to off lead work. I don't use an e-collar; instead I teach my dogs to respond to a firm "no" the same way other dogs respond to a knick on the collar. It works well for me, although admittedly I occasionally come back from training with a hoarse throat...lol.

Young pups are very location oriented and must relearn their obedience work in a lot of different locations before they understand to generalize what they've learned. They're not being disobedient, they just don't understand that the same rules apply everywhere. Whenever I take my pups to a new area, I begin with an obedience session, with a training collar if needed, to establish that the same rules apply. Once they begin to pay attention, we move on to other work.

If your pup isn't good about coming when called amidst distractions, then don't give him the chance to ignore you. Put a lead or check cord on before going out to the field. All the above advice is good. Give lots of praise (make it a ridiculously fun game) when pup responds quickly to ONE command, and correct and force compliance when he ignores. I don't like to use food past about 3 or 4 months. I work hard to teach my pups to respond to me, for my praise, that way if I find myself without food or collars, I know my pup will still respond.

Whenever one of my pups ignores my command and has to be corrected and forced, I like to immedietly send her back to that exact same spot and call her again. The second time she usually comes racing in and I praise her like she's bringing me back a million bucks. Then we move on.

Whenever I'm out hiking around in a field or wherever with my pups off lead, I periodically call them back to heel with a whistle, reward them, and send them back out. If you just call them back when the session is over, pup may begin to associate coming to you with the end of the fun. My pups come racing in head over heel with a big smile (in very distracting environments) every time they hear the whistle, and then race back out when I release them. It's all a big game.

Leif

Thank you all for the input. I haven't been using any special collars yet for Kingston. I will be trying the check cord. We hope to be putting Kingston into his second set of dog classes along with maybe hiring a local trainer to give us some tips as this is our first dog that we've wanted to train seriously.

I would like to put Kingston into hunt tests and field trials, but am not sure if we will make it there due to my lack of experience in training. If not Kingston, then I will put our next chessie in these tests.

Does anyone on this site have video footage of training chessies or know where to look to find video footage of training chessies in particular. I'm looking for all the advice I can find.

Please, keep all the advice coming. I'm soaking it all in.

Wiley,

You have plenty of time, don't give up on hunt tests or field trials yet! Just take your time and follow a prescribed method! For instance, "Retrievers from the Inside Out" is a CD-ROM that follows a prescribed method that was based upon training a Chessie. It has excellent detail, and video footage to go along with it. I paid 49.95 from gundogsupply.com, but you can also do a google search that will show you a bunch of sites to buy it on.

Don't forget about books like "10-Minute Retriever" it also does a good job at illustrating via words and pictures.

You can also think about joining a local retriever training club! Though they only typically meet a once or twice a month, you can always meet up with some of the guys to train with them! I have found that by meeting up with them, I get to share in their wealth of knowledge! It has really worked wonders for my pup!

But for god sakes, don't give up on hunt tests. He still is a pup and you still have a ton of time to train.

You might also give petsmart obedience classes a shot. I found it extremely useful, because it allowed me an avenue to insure my dog understood what I was asking him to do before I started to force!

End Note: You might consider a prong collar. I thought it was a very nasty looking device, until I realized how it worked. Believe me, it definitely draws a dogs attention through a humane correction! But definitely teach before using a method like that.

Good Luck and Enjoy yourself,

Josh

Wiley,
Where are you located?
There are knowledgeable people/amateurs that can guide through this process throughout most of the country.
Before you go buy any special collars or hire a trainer you may want meet with these people for both guidance and establishing what goals you want for Kingston.

Tim

PS Don't restrict yourself to just Chesapeake people. Good retriever people are good retriever people!

Tim,

Looks like he's near the center of British Columbia. Perhaps Norene knows of some CKC hunt test clubs up that way?

Wiley,

Are you an ACC member? If not recommend that you join. Just give a yell and I'm sure several on this list will sign your application! The club has an extensive video library that you can then use. A list should have been included in your member's kit. Titles include many on gundog, hunt test and field trial training.

T. Mac

quote:

Originally posted by Tom M:
Looks like he's near the center of British Columbia. Perhaps Norene knows of some CKC hunt test clubs up that way?
T. Mac

If Wiley lives in BC a good source for info on Hunt Tests/Trial Clubs in that area can be found on the BC Retriever News website....

BC Retriever News

We haven't been to BC in a few years...got our new required ID so are planning to go up this year.....always have enjoyed competing in HT/FT in BC.

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

I want to report the progress Kingston and I have made. Kingston is doing a lot better with the come command. We spent many walks out with the check cord and it helped a great deal. To add to the check cord and come command I bought some whistles and it seems to get his attention so that I can give him the come command.

As for the heel command...One day Kingston just started doing it. It's almost like he realized "oh! This is what you want me to do."
He is doing great with the heel command. We continue to practise it on and off the leash.

Hey Wiley,

You got a ton of great advice thus far. just a couple of more things to consider:

1. If you think your pup has "gotten it" do it for another 30 days consistently to assure he has gotten it!

2. Finding a retriever club ,good amteteur or pro is invaluable.

3. Pick a training program and follow it to the T.....there are some great ones out there. Have a look at these:

Butch Goodwin;'s Retrievers from the Inside Out
Rick Stawski's Fowl Dawgs Series
Evan Grahams Smartowrks Series


Take your time now......make sure each command you teach is ingrained and then move on. Whats the rush....you have a decade or more with your pup....no need spending it frustrated.


Good luck Wiley!

Wow! What a great thread!

Thanks from a fellow Newb!

Remember some people can really bullshit and some people can right nice books but may never have run a dog in a hunt test or field trial. So be careful as to what you use. There are a select few you should always listen to and they post very really. Tim Carrion, Scott Martin, Tom Cox, Linda Harger, Amy Dahl, Marty Newport, Julie Cole, to name a few.

quote:

Originally posted by Wally Thomas:
Wow! What a great thread!

Thanks from a fellow Newb!

Some good info by some good people, with good intentions.

I should have added......does Kingston like treats? If so why not reward him with a treat once in awhile? Heck sometimes I give a couple to Dancer when I am brush'n her up on the 'old' basics.....Amazing what a MH will do for a cookie!

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes
Home of 10 AKC Master Hunters

Mike,
I didn't see a single post containing 'poor' advice reagrding the original topic (teaching/reinforcing 'here') ...not sure if you meant that the OP should only listen to the people you listed, or that he should listen to them every time they write/speak on a subject...
There are many good trainers that post here ....And especially when regarding such basic training as basic obedience.....

Obedience isn't rocket science, regards

Juli


PS - Norene, thanx for posting up the use of treats...Had I known at the time the the 'dog' the OP was refferring to was a pup, I would have suggested the same thing.

I would not suggest to anyone they come to a forum to learn how to train a retriever......but if they choose to do so they should take what informaton is given at face value. IMO working with a professionl or an experienced amateur trainer 'hands on' provides the best solution.

Having said that, if someone comes here seeking advice, I think it's safe to assume that is what they are looking for. Most questions presented here would not be given the time of day, if they were left to be answered by the 'select few'.

I personally don't know most of the people who post on this forum. I don't know how they train, what their creditenals/accomplishments are, but it's not my place to assume they are incapable of giving a helpful suggestion in response to a question.

I have a problem with those who think it is their place to tell someone who they should/shouldn't listen to.......but then that's just me & my own problem.........& I can deal with it!

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes