Was working with Teal this weekend and and for some reason he wants to take his own route back to me with the dummy. Sometimes hesitating to bring it back to me. I have not done any FF! No E collar! Is it time to do one or the other?He will bring it back in time and this only happens sometimes!! I think its becoming a game for him.

This is normal behavior for a young dog. Force fetching can be a great foundation for establishing clean, perfect deliveries. I'm guessing, since you're asking this question, that you haven't done it before. It isn't easy, especially with some Chesapeakes. If you go that route I recommend you get one-on-one help from an experienced trainer.

If you want to hold off on that decision, you might try working on coming when called. If your dog is taking a roundabout route, or is reluctant to come all the way in, there's room for improvement on "here."

Amy Dahl

Amy you are right!! Along with this i get this look from him when i give the HERE command! Almost like "lets see what i can get away with" look. I remain focused and give him no responce!! I do train horses and feel that any acknowledgement to doing wrong will get their gander up. When i ignore Teal he comes back around and realizes the training is over if he keeps doing that and he loves the training so he does come around back to commands. I am introducing the whistle also which may confuse him.

Listen to Amy Dahl. I hope you realize who she is. Author of 5 minute retriever. It is great you post here Ms. Dahl.

Reads like your foundational command, "here," is shaky. Sooner you get it solid, the less it will haunt you down the road - and more useful it will be in situations like you've described.

Thanks for the advice!! I think teal is 10mo.? or so and is startin' to see how far he can go. My other question would be, Would it be wise to use an e collar at this point? I have used one before with Widgeon but she was a different dog! I would figure his first move away from me after HERE would require a response from the collar! FYI: Teal has been hell bent on reteiving and constantly brings back 3 foot long branches about an inch to two inches thick!!!!!!!!!!!! Bout the same size as a rattler! So i would like to nail this now with the command and e collar. Any other thoughts?

quote:

Would it be wise to use an e collar at this point? I have used one before with Widgeon but she was a different dog! I would figure his first move away from me after HERE would require a response from the collar! FYI: Teal has been hell bent on reteiving and constantly brings back 3 foot long branches about an inch to two inches thick!!!!!!!!!!!! Bout the same size as a rattler! So i would like to nail this now with the command and e collar. Any other thoughts?

John,

Since no one else has answered your last question about using an e-collar, I'll try. An e-collar is basically used to reenforce a learned/taught behavior, so in your situation I would say no do not use it as Teal has not learned to come properly. Nicking him in this instance could cause him to run the other way and not come to you at all. Use a lot of distractions as well while he is on the line so you can reenforce that he has to come and make sure to reward/praise him lavishly when he does, i.e. give him a reason to want to come back to you.

Go back to basics on a long line if you have to but reenforce the come so it is unquestionable on and off lead as well.

Kathy Miller

John,
In my humble opinion, the last thing you want to do in this situation - or any other - for that matter is to strap an e collar on the dog and give him a jolt. The e collar is a great tool, I use one, but it must be used as part of a systematic training program otherwise the shocks are just random acts of violence. The dog does not know how to respond to the collar.
I had this problem with Scout at about ten months - on advice from our "consulting Professional" I returned to basic obedience - starting on a long line - for about a week. Filling in the holes in Scout's training really improved his delivering to hand. But every once and a while, especially when there is an audience Scout will try to flip me the paw.

Ralph

PS I am still new to this retriever training so take my comments in that light.

Yep!! Knew this was probably the answer! I can use 1 or 2 lunge leads for this. Its been so long since i trained Widgeon. I just keep second guessing myself on good protocall. I did use an e collar for her and had great results. (she knew what it was and i never had to zap her again) Teal is real different in personality so this creates a different challenge for me. Thanks for keepin me in line!

Hi John,
I have a year-old pup that was doing the same thing, playing the keep away dance with retrieves. It was mainly an obedience issue of not coming when called. I'm guilty of falling down on the job with her; she came of age about the time we had a bad house fire so her basic OB training sort of got lost in the shuffle. I violated my cardinal young dog rule, too: I called her a few too many times when she blew me off, the cardinal rule is NEVER give an OB command you can't enforce. Few things in life are more aggravating than a horse or a dog you can't catch!! @#$%#!!

I knew I could collar condition her for here, but you have to be really careful with using the collar with retrieving. It's best done as part of a complete FF program, or you can screw them up to where they associate the jolt with retrieving.

In the meantime some things you can do are run Teal on a check cord (rope), not a lunge line they are too heavy. Go to a hardware store and get some lightweight nylon rope you can buy cheaply by the foot and get yourself a 10' and 25' lengths. Let Teal trail the 10' rope around a day or two before you try any retrieves with it. He'll get used to it a lot faster than a lunge line since it's lightweight and won't snag on stuff as easy. He won't even notice it's there.

You can also do water marks where he has to come back to you (the nylon floats, too). If he evades you on the return you can usually get close enough to step on the rope.

Teal's at a perfect age for FF. I had a friend FF my little heathen and in a month she was a different dog. We are still working on her obedience, but she now comes back and so now she gets more retrieve time, too. Do you have anyone nearby that can help you?

No, Julie i dont really know ANYONE that could help me with this that has any more knowledge than i have. I am going to work him a few more weeks and if i dont see results from this i may send him out to be trained properly. The last thing i need is a 90 lb. dumb dumb!! I am looking at Dustin Retreivers in N. CA. This is where his grand father is. (duckbands otter of flatlands MH) We will see.

A little training group would be great Kent. I am still debating on whether to send teal out or not. ( i trained widgeon an i guess there is a little pride involved but the time is tough) I will pm you with some info!

Had a good weekend with Teal. When not retreiving he is great on HERE (little steps) Going back to the retreive to hand he still questions if he should come back to me or not! errr! Left to dummy on the table inside and came back in from feeding the animals and the dummy was chewed into pieces!!! So i shot the dog!! (just kiddin) NOW WHAT? LOL

John, your problems are all relative for a 10 month old dog. I also think that once you get a handle on his recall, it will resolve half of your problems. Training is done in steps, i.e. parts and pieces, then you put them all together.

You are trying to put all the pieces together before you've got the parts down and I think it's confusing your dog. How can you get him to deliver to hand, when he's not 100% on coming in to you.

Stick with the basics.....one at a time. It's okay to have him retrieve but you need to make sure he comes back to you and don't worry about whether or not he holds the bumper as that will be fixed when he's forced. If you start nagging at him, he not only won't come back, but he may eat more bumpers <G>!

Everyone here has given you good advice, but I think you are missing the order of progression. It's hard to tell you how to proceed without really seeing what the dog is doing, but I'd begin by backing up, doing short retrieves, and use lots of enthusiasm and the long line to get him to come in all the time and if he spits the bumper at your feet, don't worry about it for now.....you want to get him in and with the bumper....don't bark at him, give him a reason to want to come back by being enthusiastic with him.....and don't leave your bumpers out when you aren't there to stop him from chewing them up. Most important, don't forget he's only 10 months old.

This is supposed to be fun.

Hope we'll see you and Teal at Alex's where we can work on a direction for you to proceed.

Kathy

quote:

Originally posted by j parkin:
When not retreiving he is great on HERE...

With serious distractions?

Which, of course, that bumper he likes so well is.

I'm guessing not, and would be setting him up for "here" corrections in the face of serious distractions and conditioning unconditional compliance there before putting retrieving back into his training mix.

Thanks Rick!! Nail on the head!! Back to the extreme basics!! It will all work out.