What should I be doing to improve marking in my pups (5 months old)?

I had Luna & Cirrus out in the fields for the first time today (finally it has thawed enough!)

They both had lots of enthusiasm for chasing the bumpers (hand-tossed fun bumpers) but both had a tendency to stop short on every throw and ended up having quite a hunt.

These were not far throws (I have wussy girl arms). I was throwing a 2" dark olive green cordura bumper, on 1-2" snow, so contrast should not have been an issue (except for my bad throws that landed in the spots of soggy dead alfalfa/mud/puddles rather than on the snow LOL)

I plan to be back out there tomorrow with my hubby to start them on proper marks...what should we be doing to best develop marking ability?

I'm not the training expert some of these folks are, but I'm a believer in building on success, which in this case would mean shorter and more visable on the ground marks until the Pups are pouncing on those. Then extending those marks, while still keeping the bumpers as visable as possible for a while.

The idea with marking being for a dog to rely on its eyesight (and memory) more than its hunting instinct and nose, we'll return to easily seen bumpers for a while any time a young or old dog gets loose about its marks and starts relying on hunting them up,instead of pegging them. But I think it's especially important to imprint confidence in and dependence on eyesight in a pup's mind.

Know that's not always so easy with snow on the ground.

I'm with Rick Lisa, are you using white coats?

Shorten the throws as needed, look for the pups to go right to the "bird", not at the thrower etc. Flat terrain, low to no cover, extend some, but at their age plenty of 30 - 60 yard successes are great. Stretching comes easily later.

Have fun - snow off the ground YAY regards!

Wayne

White coats? LOL the ground we are working on is still 80-90% snow covered.

We are going to start with very short throws, on the least cover we can manage. But how to extend? Should the gunner move away (giving new area of fall?), or should gunner stay in place and handler move farther away (maintaining same area of fall)

Lisa get out of the snow

Hey if you can use a lot of attention getters , and a shackled pigeon . Also take some white plastic bags , you get when you go shopping and tie some trailers on your bumpers ,,and i would keep the same line and let your bird boy move ,,,,but i would keep him throwing in the same direction ,,,,,if he is facing you and throwing to your right or left i would make sure he keeps throwing the same mark (hieght and distance) on the throw ,,,only moving farther back . Remember this just an opinion .

I would not hand throw. I would have someone go out and throw flat or inward throw. Inward throws if pup is running to thrower. Also, don't throw in cover flat open terrain. Also I don't know about those colors. Remember dogs see colors differently then we do. I use white no snow and solid black bumpers in snow. I agree when they are young pure success. Move closer you can work on distance later. Stretching a dog's distance is really not that hard. Ask again later on and I will tell you how I stretch distance. Oh yeah look at your puppy make sure he is looking at gunner. Many times I see people looking at the throw and dog is not. You are not retrieving bumper dog is and you already know where bumper is landing. By watching your dog more and at a young age you begin to read your dog. Also, communicate with your pup. Mark when he looks where you want say good and just before you signal give the sit command. Later he will learn sit means lock in. All this is just my opinion it could be worthless information. Not here to debate what I say.

At 5 months it is about: having fun,using their eyes, and building confidence.
At this point all bumpers and birds should be completely visible to your dog: in the air, in route, and into their mouth.
I would use another person throwing when ever possible. That thrower needs to: initially create a excitement before throwing, throw long away from them self making the bumper the focus as the dog runs towards it and it will make you the handler more attractive for the return.The thrower should also be ready to throw again if the puppy starts to slow down or loose focus.
As a personal note I hate to see steady puppies.
Let'm go just before it hits the ground.

JMO

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by timothy carrion:
At 4 months it is about: having fun,using their eyes, and building confidence.
At this point all bumpers and birds should be completely visible to your dog: in the air, in route, and into their mouth.
I would use another person throwing when ever possible. That thrower needs to: initially create a excitement before throwing, throw long away from them self making the bumper the focus as the dog runs towards it and it will make you the handler more attractive for the return and be ready to throw again if the puppy starts to slow down or loose focus.
As a personal note I hate to see steady puppies.
Let'm go just before it hits the ground.

JMO

Tim

yep! You can encourage focus by holding their hips with one hand and collar with the other, so they can't squirm around trying to go.

Juli

So, we went out to the field with the pups, one at a time. They did great with a thrower, no issues at all there with learning to lock onto the gunner.

We did 6 throws (about 30 yards ea) with Cirrus, marking was perfect on all but 1 - as she took off for that one she tripped and did a somersault enroute...and my thrower was standing there lost in the clouds and forgot to throw another bumper. But she wasn't far off and found it with a few seconds of hunting. I am VERY happy with her work, for her first day in the field running "real" marks! Lots of drive and enthusiasm, and good returns to me.




I am doing the 2 handed hold (collar & hips) at the line to help line up the pups. I am also working from both left and right sides, depending on which direction the mark is thrown.

I do need to have a talk with my thrower though - I tell him angle-in, and he throws a major angle-back good thing the dog had NO trouble with it. He did at least manage long throws, just not quite the angle I asked for.

When we took Luna (Toller) out for her turn we kept the distances even shorter, maybe 15 yards. She is pretty little (15" or so) still, a lot more distractable, and doesn't have the same level of intensity as the Chessies so I wanted to make sure I didn't overwhelm her. Well, she got very excited at the quacking and hey-heying and spinning bumpers, and flew out after each of the 3 marks thrown for her. Marking was no problems. Returning to me...another issue I did anticipate this though and had her on a 50' line! I got her most of the way back to me before she dropped, so not too bad for her first day. No pics of her - I had my hands full enough with the check cord LOL

We also ran Bandit (almost 6 months Chessie monster). He is Ken's dog to handle. This drives me CRAZY! (I admit I am a control freak) This dog has soooo much go in him...and such a clueless handler...who also has NOT been working with his dog on recalls/obedience nearly as much as he claimed to be doing. It showed today

I was the thrower for Bandit's marks - Bandit was soooo focused on me that he didn't even know Ken existed. His marking is awesome...but after he picks up a bumper he runs to me and worships the bumper bag and completely ignores his handler. (new behavior - in the past he always returned to handler...but we haven't ran marks since early Jan with him)

Ken needs to get a whole lot more insistent and sounds like he means business. Bandit would NEVER pull that with me, cuz he knows I would not let him...but he knows his daddy is a softy. So I will have to put both hubby and his dog into "boot camp"!

Great pics Lisa ,,,she sure is perty

We ran the 2 girls again tonight - almost all the snow is gone now, yipppeeee!!!!

We moved out to the alfalfa field (cover mostly about 4-5") as the grass area we used last time was pretty busy with various dogs, kids, bikes etc. Since the snow was gone we were throwing white paint rollers (teething pups, so sticking to soft stuff for now!)

Cirrus did really really well on the light cover. She locks in great on the gunner (very intense!), her marking was very good (kept marks to about 30 yards) and her returns were excellent, with most deliveries to hand.

Luna needs to go back to the mowed grass though, the alfalfa field was too much cover for her right now. She had much better returns though today I only had to reel her in the first 2 times, the next 4 retrieves she came in on the whistle, and I even got several deliveries to hand!

I need to find a better thrower than my hubby though. No matter how much I try to describe how I want him to throw, what to do etc....once he is out there in the field he just does whatever pops into his head...sigh (like throw the bumper, then quack the duck call after the bumper lands????? I am still trying to figure that one out!)

LOL - Sounds like FUN!

When my boys are throwing for me, I often walk out with them to the gunner stations and show them exactly where to throw - and when to shoot/quack, if we are using those attn getters.

I gave up on my hubby long ago! LOL LOL LOL!

When I really want the mark to land in a precise location, I have the boys handle the dogs and I throw ...I like doing this because I can control when the dog gets help and what kind of help he gets, if needed. It also gives the boys a chance to do some of the fun stuff.

I always throw for Logan when we are training Harley...Tonight I watched Logan do some pretty good handling - moving his right leg to line Harley up, away from a memory mark to watch the go bird...and then again to bring her back to the memory mark after she picked up the go bird. He is going to be a pretty darn good handler and I enjoy talking to him about how I want to tackle a certain training issue..Most of the time I find that he is really listening to me. He knows a lot more about training than some adults! LOL I really hope I can talk him into running a derby or two this summer with Harley...

Juli

quote:

I need to find a better thrower than my hubby though. No matter how much I try to describe how I want him to throw, what to do etc....once he is out there in the field he just does whatever pops into his head...sigh (like throw the bumper, then quack the duck call after the bumper lands????? I am still trying to figure that one out!)

Lisa, Sounds like you are getting the "pups" where you want them. Now for your husband...

Maybe dual training sessions, Dogs & Hubby.
The "ear pinch" and "toe press" might work wonders. If not, strap an E-collar on him (pick a place )
Might change his attitude real quick - tehehe.

Charlie

oh - your story about your husband reminds me of one time when my hubby was throwing marks for Hitch.... There was several inches of snow and the bumper landed in some deeper stuff - Hitch had quite a hunt and suddenly, out of the blue, my hubby yells at him to SIT...Oh My Gosh.....I couldn't believe that...Hitch ignored him at first and so he kept yelling at him to sit...I was so flabergasted, I didn't even react...Hitch eventually sat and then didn't know what to do, and my husband was trying to give him some sort of hand signal to the bumper...That was interesting, to say the least...funny now..but I was STEAMING after it happened! LOL

Juli

Juli and Lisa

Sounds like the e collars need to be on your partners....knuckleheads.....

A good bird chucker is worth their weight in gold. I have found that young folks who want to learn are the best, because they will listen.


Other folk that have been begged or bartered into doing it are usually next to worthless....

Good luck

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MooseMT:
Other folk that have been begged or bartered into doing it are usually next to worthless....

Good luck

Jeff

unless they are your children and threatened with extra chores at home....

Juli

The real problem is, my hubby WANTS to do it! He is the hunter of the family, I am just the dog trainer he is throwing for me, and I am throwing for the dogs he is handling (ooooh the pain of watching him...I know he is doing his best, but still....he is NOT a natural at working a dog)

I am much better at training the dogs than I am at training a thrower, apparently!

Now that spring is arriving I will be getting together with some a few other local people that have at least a bit of field experience, so hopefully I will have throwers with a clue at least once a week!

Tollwest you are nuts. You have a live body out in the field. You are the trainer. Placement of the throw is your responsibility. Flat throw, angle back simple. Where the throw goes is your responsibility. If you think you are going to get perfect throws in a group that is experienced think again. Get two radios and communicate with your thrower. You give instructions when to help and whether to retire or whether to help. I'll tell you if your going to join an experience group you better have a chair, radio and umbrella and a blank pistol.

Yes I am nuts...fully aware of that! I mean, come on, I have Tollers for gawds sake! You have to be nuts to have them (especially 12 of the damn things!)

I don't expect perfect throws, but do expect them to go at least roughly in the direction I ask my thrower to send them. Even if I give him a target to aim for (flag an area) he will sometimes throw the opposite direction! and like I said, he has been known to throw a bumper, and then decide to quack a duck call after the bumper is on the ground?

I can tell him what I need him to do, but apparently I can't make him follow the directions I am trying to be very clear, and not over-complicate things for him, but it goes in one ear and out the other.

We do have radios, although at this point he is still close enough that he can hear me just fine without them! yes we have chairs, umbrellas and a blank pistol too among other assorted field training things rapidly filling up my house. I have much more equipment than most of the people that will be joining me for training (this is a bit scary, I am one of the most experienced in this group-to-be! eeek!)

I am going back out to the field tomorrow...with the hubby. I am going to go out alone first and mark off my gunner stations, and "bumper landing points" for him to hopefully aim towards. I may even try drawing a diagram/map for him to follow. If he still fails at this, I am not sure what to do!

Lisa,

This is the way I see it. Husbands tend to want to make everything they do into rocket science - and especially more so if it is something the WIFE wants to do......It is just not possible to ask them to do anything simple...Because if it is easy, it must not be right! LOL

That's my Opinion, and I'm sticking to it!
Juli