This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kent Stokesberry,

Kent,

You "MAVERICK" !! (could not resist! - esp in light of the recent political fallout)

Remember never give up fighting with that Chessie spirit or life is dull, mundane, and boring.

How's the Season going for you?? Cain & Rita want a good workout.

Best Regards, Charlie

Kent I am serious my program is I train every day. And at the end of each day that I train I ask myself did I have fun and was I fair to my dogs. Answer Yes.

Though right now my young dog's blind are no where near all age blinds. He could get out of a first series but after that we are dead in the water. Momentum is there, Distance is there, obedience sucks, confidence and trusting me sucks. Not being stubborn, just not communicating to him what I want. Every morning he gets three blinds - big blinds; every night three blinds short. Sometimes I'm on cloud nine other days we aren't going to make it. But marks and concepts different story very happy.

2-6 months: Yard:
Obedience-voice & whistle
here/heel/sit on & off lead
at my side & remote
3 pile sight lining (T spots)
3 handed casting (T spots)
Field:
walking land singles little or no cover
square entry water singles
short sight water lining
6-7 months: Yard:
force hold
force fetch
collar condition
Field:
water force
swim-by
increase birds for attitude

7-9 months: Yard:
5 pile "clock" (TT spots)
5 handed casting
Field:
singles multiple guns
de-cheat land then water
intro doubles
establish water 5 piles for entries and casting
courage singles

9-12 months: Yard:
add & stagger piles of clock
back away to decrease angles
Field:
concept making singles and doubles

For what it's worth.

Tim

This message has been edited. Last edited by: timothy carrion,

Tim,

Great outline! Thanks for the info

Josh

I've no interest in training by mainstream retriever programs, but after reading a James Spenser artical about treating training like a management by objective problem, I've treated the training of my last four dogs as such. So I guess that's our "program".

With each pup I begin fresh by making a list of my goals for the finished dog, then work backwards from each in an "in order to have this, we'll first need that, and to achieve that, we'll need a couple other things in place..." and so on, all the way back to "sit" and "come".

It's a physical document with lots of room for additions and changes that are sure to arrise, and it's a mess! But it provides a road map of landmarks that lets us begin every day knowing just where we are and where we're headed. And, perhaps just as importantly, it makes me think about the relationships between those landmarks that can make their achievement simpler.

(As for the mechanics of getting from "A" to "B," they can vary as much as the dogs, my moods and the tools - ok, toys: we strive not to make a job of it - available to us.)

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Hall:
I've no interest in training by mainstream retriever programs, but after reading a James Spenser artical about treating training like a management by objective problem, I've treated the training of my last four dogs as such. So I guess that's our "program".

With each pup I begin fresh by making a list of my goals for the finished dog, then work backwards from each in an "in order to have this, we'll first need that, and to achieve that, we'll need a couple other things in place..." and so on, all the way back to "sit" and "come".

It's a physical document with lots of room for additions and changes that are sure to arrise, and it's a mess! But it provides a road map of landmarks that lets us begin every day knowing just where we are and where we're headed. And, perhaps just as importantly, it makes me think about the relationships between those landmarks that can make their achievement simpler.

(As for the mechanics of getting from "A" to "B," they can vary as much as the dogs, my moods and the tools - ok, toys: we strive not to make a job of it - available to us.)

Well said Rick. I feel with our breed more so than any other mainstream retriever, flexibility and making a "mess" of a outline of goals is the only way to get to your final goal. Knowing what your goals are in the beginning is an obvious but, easily overlooked task.

I find myself going backwards at times. Problems which I thought were non-existent or "fixed" have come back to haunt me a little and I am surprised to be seeing them....

Good reason to keep training....you never know what will pop up unless you keep on a routine and a plan. Keeping my own plan flexible, erasable and workable is the biggest help...Not to mention helpful training advice from experts and people who know 10X more than me....I have been lucky to have great people around me in the past and new folks moving forward into the future to help and along the way...Paul

Paul,

I find myself going backwards on a weekly basis! But my goal for every week is to have to go back less and less. In other words, if i have to go back to practicing stay from the basics. Then the next week I don't want to have to go as far back. So I am still always going forward!

Josh

quote:

Originally posted by gauge:

I find myself going backwards on a weekly basis!

Josh

If that is the case then don't move forward.
I have never known anyone that has trained a retriever with only books, videos or a website.
IMHO find someone that has achieved the goals you want for your dog. Allow them to tell when and how to progress.
Training with other people can allow your and other unbiased eyes to evaluate the dogs assets and problems on a regular basis.

JMO

Tim

The breed means nothing. Your flexibility and sensitivy as a trainer to each individual dog and it's temperament governs what method or means you use to TEACH and then condition fluent responding.

The elements of all the "basics" programs spell out the road map to advanced retriever success.

Look over any basics outline....I think Lyle Steinman has a nice one on his website...why wouldn't you want to follow that route?

Moving ahead of the basics, and/or not thorougly generalizing and conditioning each element will leave you backing up to patch holes infinitum.

You can hurry through or past your basics to get to more fun advanced work or competition but at some point the wheels will fall off.

Chesapeake Bay Retrievers like every retriever need to be thoroughly taught the basic elements in order to progress through and towards truly upper level elements of retrieving work. Regardless of the method used to establish the basics.

Nobody is going out with their dog and running cold blinds without first having established the basic handling skills. Any dog progressed to a level that includes handling control, steadyness and multiple marks has gone through some form of basics. Even if you're attempting to buck or rebuke the FT basics program as it is known.

How thoroughly you establish those basic fundamental skills will determine how far and how well you are able to work with your retriever at more advanced levels of retrieving work.

All the best,

Wayne Dibbley
Next Level Retriever Training

Rick like your pictures but have to disagree with you. I owe my dogs the best method of training so I don't waste their time or mine. I try not to work backwards. I do drills to re-enforce what I want to accomplish. I break down the stages I want to accomplish. I like smart works program and constantly read it. I like 5 minute retriever and go back to that also. I try to go to two seminars a year. Some of the seminars I've gone to - Andy Atar, John Cavanuagh, Smartworks, and in a few weeks I'll be going to the Rorem seminar. Saying you will not follow proven methods makes your job harder and I feel you then condem yourself to learning by your mistakes and not the dogs. I also, try to pick great trainers and handlers minds. When ever I run into the Shaws, Scott Martin, Billy Smith, Tim Carrion I ask questions. Scott Martin has left a field trial two hours or more after it ended just to give me a private seminar on my training problems. I'm even hoping to go down to Maryland to train with Tim Carrion. Got to train with the best in order to advance. Just my opinion - not meant to get anyone upset.

quote:

Originally posted by Moscowitz:
Rick like your pictures but have to disagree with you. I owe my dogs the best method of training so I don't waste their time or mine. I try not to work backwards.

By all means disagree all you want, but I'd rather you didn't misinterpret. Sure never said I worked backwards except to determine a course that provides firm foundations for steps to come.

Because I don't use a collar or FF or force-to or swim-by or much other mainstrime drill work, I strive just that much harder to avoid getting ahead of ourselves or letting problems develop that will later need fixed. Foundational work is huge.

(Jackie Mertin's "Sound Beginings" is downright reckless compared to the start my little ones get.)

Rick I probably misunderstood.

I do force fetch but I do not use the ecollar. As I have said many times I don't object to the ecollar. It is a great tool. But I'm not good with an ecollar. I do swim by, single T. I don't do double T. I use pattern blinds. I try to train in the mainstream adjusting to the training for non use of ecollar.