Hi All,
I have a 7 month old Chesi and he is responding really well to training. Unfortunately he goes crazy as soon as he goes in the lake. He will not respond to any commands and completely ignores me, I have to wait around half an hour before he finally comes back, even when offered his favorite treat from the lake side he disregards my call. When he returns I don't punish him for not responding but simply get him to sit and re-attach his lead. He also barks like crazy in the water, something he never does on dry land. Can anyone help me overcome this please, we live next to lots of water so I need to try to sort it out.

The way I see it "water freaking" can hope to be controlled but can never be completely corrected, jmho. IF it is not yet too deeply rooted of a pattern/behavior strict OB drills around and then eventually through running water (easing into swimming) with lots of remote sits/w. bumper on narrow opposite banks/"Here" drills using definately a pinch collar (from what I've *heard* avoid e-collar corrections it may only stimulate the behavior in water). Also, if the dawg hasn't been F-F yet this "after" being in place (and after a break from H20) will obviously give the tools to refocus this behavior "but still" I would reintroduce around contollable running water on check cord. This may take a while to get under "control"???
Good Training,
Dave B.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave B,

JK,
"water freaking" as Dave B called it is what your seeing. This is more common then you think. I had a hugh "water freak" on my hands a while back. At 7 months I'll bet you can cure it. Let it go to long and your in trouble. This is what worked for me. (AFTER FF PROGRAM!!)
1) Collar Condition!! Entire program...
2) Collar work on HERE and whistle on dry land. (watch the pressure but it needs to be 100%)
3) Take walks near water test HERE (be ready with collar)
4)Shoot marks over small creeks, streams etc. command here or whistle be ready with collar if needed.
5) take these tools and return to bigger water. Remember to turn down the collar when the dogs in the water. You can always turn it back up if you need to. This worked for me. Thatcher is 100% now in the water. I do not hunt my dogs with any collar on at all. And he is fine.
Best Wishes..........

Some good advice here and I agree wholeheartedly with strong obedience reinforced with collar corrections applied judiciously depending on the temperment of the "offender." And like "3baydogs" stated, following a very thorough collar conditioning program.

Cultivate a Chesapeake's natural love of water in a controlled environment and in some cases, with very strict standards.

When used properly, the collar is very effective tool in numerous situations.

Keith

Though I've tried to find out I can't decipher some of the terminology you used, could you help me please?
What does the following mean?:
FF program? does this mean force fetch?
Collar condition?
Turning down the collar?
Check cord?
E-collar?

Thanks again for any help. I've stopped my Chessie going near water for the moment because he now just bolts like a loony for the water when he gets the scent. I'm walking him with collar and lead to heal evertime we go out to give him a period of control.

FIrst of all - are electronic collars legal in the UK? If not don't worry about the collar conditioning (CC), as it is only used for teaching a dog how to respond correctly to electronic collar stimulus. (Thus you don't just take the collar out of the box, strap it on the dog and burn/shock him the first time he disobeys.)

FF is force fetch - not a common training method in Britain, if I am not mistaken, but very well accepted and generally highly reccomended in the states/canada. It is a procedure in which your dog is forced to pick up and carry an object and deliver it to hand. While FF does teach a dog it must obey a command no matter what, the primary purpose, I believe, is to teach the dog how to respond to higher levels of pressure and how to get out of that pressure as well as building a solid working foundation with it's handler/owner/trainer.
a check cord is a long rope - 50 feet or more in length - which is used to control your dog. It works, but you have to be consistent. Use a floating check cord in water ONLY if there are no hazards on or under the water (such as broken branches or lily pads). HAzards like this can cause the rope to get tangled, and possibly cause serious injury or drowning to your dog.
I would not let your dog anywhere near water unless you have 100% control of him - check cord or e-collar.

I would also reccomend you spend 5-10 minutes working on obedience while you are near water with your dog (on lead/check cord). He has to learn to listen no matter what.
good luck, Juli

Thanks very much , I'll give it a go.

JK, I read about your "water freaking" chessy with interest when I saw you are in the UK where force fetch and e-collars are not used. They are the traditional US ways of dealing with this strange malady. Not the e-collar per se, I agree w/Dave B. that collar stimulation is the wrong method of dealing wth this, but many use the collar for failure to respond to a known command (in this case, coming when called).

At 7 mos. hopefully he's still young enough you can get this somewhat under control before it becomes too solidly ingrained. You will have to start with strict obedience with a dog like this. No water for the time being. Once you feel his obed. is solid then you can introduce his obedience around water, again not allowing access. Then you can try to re introduce water WITH a check cord on so you are never in the position to give a command you cannot enforce.

WHile FF is not commonly done in the UK perhaps you can get with someone who does train gundogs or trial dogs to work on a solid retrieve program. In other words for dogs like this water has to be for work (retrieving) 0nly, not play. You might even want to go forward with a force fetch program--you can get the book "The 10-Minute Retriever" by JOhn & Amy Dahl from Amazon which outlines it fairly well for a beginner. Even thouugh FF seems to be a uniquely American training method, it might still be your best bet to get this under control, because the water freaking seems to be uniquely an American breed problem; I've never known any goldens or Labs that did it.

The thing is, a true water freaker is like a crack addict around water. It's like a drug to them, they truly zone out around it. You've already seen that with the mindless barking and splashing and total oblivion of you yelling on the shore. This is why until the dog is fully trained you'll need to restrict its water access unless on a check cord or you are willing to swim out after him. 95 of 100 times they are not going to come out willingly until THEY are good and ready.

On the upside every single water freaker I've known has been a talented retriever. The reason I say they're like crack addicts is because it never really goes away, you just lessen the incidence if they're well trained and the water access is strictly for work.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Julie,
Thanks very much for your help. It's so nice to talk to people who understand my problem. Ches is indeed just like a crack addict when he gets in water.
I'll certainly keep him out of the water, but with a moat, a river and a 2 big lakes near us it means lots of "on the lead work!".
Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.
Regards,
John

I'm a new owner of a chessie...he is now 9 mos. He was started in the H2O early on and did well, but when he approached 6 mos. he started disobeying to get out of the water and would splash around. He swam for 2 hrs non-stop when I took him by myself to swim...I tried everyting, but had to call my husband at work to come get him out. This happend about 2 weeks before he went to 'doggy boot camp'. He did it again the day we dropped him off and then only one more time w/the trainers. He is on his 3rd month of training and shows no signs of 'water freaking'. The trainers said it didn't take long for them to break him, but they did use an e-collor. I think the biggest problem was that he knew I wasn't going to jump in after him and that I'm the softy. Thankfully, the trainers are helping me learn that I can love on him, but there are limitations to how much and when.
Take care -- Rebecca

Hi.
Just a little peep from Denmark. I have had a dog , like your`s he didn`t want to come out off the water. One day my husband got enough, he took the car, and started to drive home. The dog came out of the water in a rush. We hav`nt had problems since.Is it a Penrose ches?
Good-Luck Judith

Hi Rebecca

Thanks for the info.
I think the only thing that will snap him out of the obsessional behavour it will be an e-collar. I'll need to learn how to use one properly.

John

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JK,

Hi Judith,
I tried leaving him and went home for half an hour. Came back he was still barking and slapping his paws in the deep water swimming in circles. I think I'll go for the e-collar.
Thanks
John

Hi there

I also live in the UK and am training my first Chessie. She is 11 weeks old and has not been introduced to water yet. I am thinking about the best way of going about this in order to avoid or minimise the possibility of the problem that John is experiencing.

I had it in mind to avoid any free ‘play’ in water or long swims and just begin by having her crossing streams etc as part of retrieving marks.

It would be interesting to know how/when your dog’s behaviour started John and if you think with hindsight there is anything you could have done to avoid it? It would also be great to hear any advice from others about avoiding this problem.(I don't use e-collar or FF)



Pippa

Pippa,
I'd let your puppy play and do little puppy retrieves in water, chances are she won't be a water freaker. It's not all that common; just that it makes an impression on you so once you see one you remember it!

I've never owned one so I can't say at what age you know you have a water freak (like a crack addict, can't stay out and ignores all commands once in water) vs. just a dog that really likes the water. My Thug loves water, she's always liked to swim for recreation and sometimes take the long way (swim) back from retrieves but she's not a water freaker. Once you've seen one you'll know it.

If you start to see any signs you have a water freaker, this is the time I'd restrict any/all access to water. Here some of the signs I've noticed of true water freaks: They don't swim with a direction (toward a retrieve) or purpose in mind (joining other dogs at play, coming in when you swim, cooling dip)--this is different, almost like an addiction or compulsion. They usually whine, snap at wake/waves, and swim in circles. They are oblivious to anything else going on around them, most especially a retrieve or the owner's recall commands. Really bad water freakers will start to go into the "zone" almost as soon as they see or sense water nearby.

Of course if you notice any signs of this in your pup you should restrict her water access but most all the CBRs I've ever known have loved water, swimming and water retrieves but aren't water freakers. I do think a puppy playing and being allowed access to water/other dogs to play with in addition to its retrieves becomes a happy, more confident swimmer which you want to encourage. Just like anything else though, if the pup gets to an age it starts to "test" you I'd just make sure you had the means to enforce the recall, whether on land or water (i.e. check cords).

quote:

chances are she won't be a water freaker. It's not all that common

Many thanks Julie, thats good to hear



Pippa

Hi Pippa,
Sorry not to get back to you sooner.

You are exactly correct; I think my first mistake with Ches was to let him go into the water without a reason. I think looking back he should have only been allowed to go into water to fetch something I threw or to only let him cross rivers with me. That way I could stay in control all the time. He is now much better and will go into water to fetch a dummy and return without a problem. However, if he returns to the moat where he initially started the freaking it triggers him to start again but only in the moat, it’s an incredible compulsive behavior. Julie’s comments are right you can’t mistake water freaking, people used to come running up thinking the dog was drowning only to find me reading the paper at the side of the moat waiting patiently for 30 mins until he’d freaked enough!
Don’t be afraid of taking your dog to water, just make it work for the pleasure!
John

JK--good to hear you have a grip on the water freaking and thanks for the laugh this morning--got a mental picture of someone sitting riverside patiently waiting with paper and cup of coffee (or tea being as you're in England!) with a CBR merrily swimming in circles, splashing and snapping at the waves while it gets its "fix"!

One time I was at a hunt test and a CBR that had done very well to that point went into its water freaking trance on the way to its last water mark. Almost like something snapped--the straight line to the duck dissolved into the circling, swimming, whining and snapping at the wake. A lot of the people in the gallery got alarmed thinking it was drowning and needed to be rescued but those of us that know the breed knew exactly what was going on and felt sorry for the owner. Unless you can go in and grab the dog, not much you can do but wait it out.