Ok, I am tired of the obedience post. So I am changing the topic.

I am contemplating taking my pup with me in the morning for a little jump shooting action. He seems to have all the skills down. But I have heard that I most pups shouldn't hunt til their second year.

Lets have a vote, should I take him or not

Josh

Josh, This situation is very similar to a recent thread (chat board) titled "pups first duck hunt" posted by Blake. His dog was 4 months old (like Gauge). Mixed emotions here. Mike Moscowitz wrote "Glad you had fun. But you might pay for it later on in your dogs career. I would train him more before I put him in the real scenario. You don't want to be throwing rocks where the ducks fall to get him to retrieve. Been there done that. No more can of rocks for me. That dog has a lot more training to go at 4 months." regarding this situation. Jeff (MooseMT) wrote "Awesome...life is good! Nice pup, way to build a fire in the youngster, he should be a fireball next year..".

Both views are valid. However, Mike's observations seem better fitted here, especially considering your past problems with Gauge and only recently have gotten some standards of control with him. You do not want to negate or ruin your efforts thus far. Better to solidify Gauge's training now and anxiously await hunting next year than try hunting now and potentially allowing/causing problems that could prevent years of future successful hunting endeavers. Mike is seasoned in
'games' and can address this better for you.

I would suggest a nice hike or walk in the woods (well dressed if hunting season - don't want you or Gauge accidentally shot) to get Gauge accustomed to the environment without the 'pressures' of hunting. Place Gauge ON LEAD. That way you CONTROL all of Gauge's behavior & reactions while still allowing him to become acclaimated to a hunting situation.
This way he gains some experience needed and develops his interest but allows you to continue training until he is fully ready to hunt by your side. You can also throw "flyers" (not sure if terminology is correct) or frozen ducks as a reward or to spark/maintain interest after the walk/training session. Charlie

Gauge

My response the previous post quoted by Charlie was that I had believed that pup had been prepared before he was hunted at 4 months. For an experienced dog trainer that would have prepared his pup (all the things Kent said), and limit the exposure your pup is getting, only marks, no cripples, nothing that would scare the pup.

However after reading your posts and if you are not a "chainpuller" then you will most likely screw this pup up....sorry I call them as I see them, you seem like a nice guy but you don't seem to have the training skills and the follow through to take this pup on his first hunt yet.
If you do you, then I agree with Mike you may pay for it later.

Please enjoy your pup and get the basics down first, enjoy him next year.

Jeff

PS Charlie good catch on you post....

Ok, I am far from a "chainpuller." I have been working the hell out of the basics, and the last thing I am trying to do is ruin my pup.

Lets start off with kents questions:

1. How many flyers has he had?
a) none, but he has had a ton of live pigeions in his mouth. I know it isn't the same, but he is very birdy.

2. How does he react around a shotgun blast?

a) He is fine around gunfire, I introduced him very slowly over 2 weeks. I have trained labs before, so i followed the same principles there. I had a buddy throw a bumper a bunch of times, and i started about 200 yards away. I slowly worked my way in. And after working on it for 2 weeks i can shot over him, and he just gets excited.

3) How does he do off the leash? He is great off of the leash. Most of the obedience I do with him is done with him is by prong collar and praise. i started phasing the leash out last week, and now he just has his collar and a portion of a cut leash sticking up. For the most part he stays in heel, when he does take a step or two off a simple "no" brings him back in.
b) when i do retrieveing with him, we go to a couple of open fields i hunt to toss bumpers. he doesn't have a leash on there!

4) Is my dog familar with other dogs and people.
a) Keep in mind that most of my obedience training sessions are with a trainer in petsmart. So he is very social when it comes to other dogs and people. I have socialized him well, and since i joined a local retriever club he has gotten even more experience.

Your right though, I don't want to have to toss a rock all the time to get him to retrieve.

And kent, keep in mind that i do have limited experience training dogs. I have trained two very respectable labs!! Not that it is even remotely similar, but I do have some know how.

As for field trial, I have no experience! But I am researching it.

As always, thanks for all the information!

Kent,

I haven't decided on anything yet. Actually, I probably won't take him. The last thing I want to do is set him back!

I have put a ton of work into him, and I still have a long road to haul.

I was just getting differing opinions, but please don't underestimate my training skills. In the beginning, I was just confused about the aggression. But all he needed was some firm guidence in the right direction. And I am so grateful that I had this website to go to!

Josh, I vote no, but..........Thanks for tryin to "freakin kill" Kent lol

I could write a book on the do's anbd dont's, but I'll spare you. If you do take him just be very careful. Try to keep everything as controlled as possible. It will be almost impossible on a real hunt. Not a good idea IMO. Greg

Josh, why do you take a friend(s) hunting. You work your dog (on a lead) and let your friends do the shooting. You'll be right there to help out in case he gets in trouble.

Actually, it was just going to be me and a friend. And my pup of course.

But i have decided to just let him stay home! The water is starting to get cold anyway!

Thanks for all the advice

Josh, Greg's idea of working/training Gauge while others with you hunt may work. However, There is still too many possibilities that your total control can be lost. For example, Gauge could become "spooked" for whatver reason - sudden and unexpected noise, animal in woods, etc. Remember, Chessies HAVE a long memory - they do not forget. If spooked or fearful, that obsticle may take a very long time to overcome, if ever. Also, if Gauge injures his paw/foot. He will associate that hunting = pain/injury (esp his young age). Another point - even if recall is good, a fearful dog or a dog uncertain (because of a new unfamiliar sitation) may not respond as nornal, which could quickly turn into a bad situation.
Better to have basics and 100% certainty that Gauge will respond/react to your commands everytime no matter where you are,
what situation or enviroment you are in, or in any state of emotional excitement or confusion. These attributes are gained
through solid reinforced traning.
I know you are anxious to have Gauge hunt with you. I an anxious to read/hear stories of his wonderful & fantastic feats preformed in the field too. However, with Many Years of Hunting ahead, be careful you do not prematurely create a situation
that will prevent that. You said " please don't underestimate my training skills". One thing although is no matter how experienced (as a trainer), there is one factor noone controls - the will/nature of the dog, esp one so young and inexperienced.

Jeff, Not knowing Josh's experience (2 Labs & Gauge), plus not knowg Gauge's pedigree, too much harm could result if hunted too early. If you wrote this thread, It would be a different situation. You had Chessies a l-o-n-g time (makes us feel old - ugh). Plus Moose is a high quality bred dog. (wrote this too for Josh's benefit. To exemplify why any given situation, although seemingly the same as another, can not be viewed as the same - too many variables). Charlie

your right, there is way to many variables. He is just staying home, but I think I might shoot some pigieons over him tomarrow.

He is really turning out to be a wonderful dog.

Josh

Josh

Excellent call. Poor Kent I wonder if the fingernail marks will come off the ceiling..LOL.

I have seen a lot a people forget that jump shooting ducks is a lot like walking up pheasants. These types of hunts will save you a lot a frustration in the future if you wait until you dog is VERY steady and you are in a position to correct issues (that means going into the water to make corrections or offer encouragement). If you are going to continue onto any games with your dog or just have a relaxing hunt with him, having him steady is your goal.

As to the shot flyers, I personally like to have as many as possible in as many different situations for the pup before he hunts. 100-150 is not out of line IMHO.

Even with an older pup their first time out should always be controlled so you don't start issues.

This year Moose got stuck/scared by something in the slough. His third time out hunting this slough. He went across the slough made the retreive but balked halfway across on the return. I finally got him to come back and he did the same thing on the next retreive in the same spot. So 30 degrees out, I was in chest deep water encouraging him to come through the spot that he was leering of. We got him comfortable with that place and I took him 150 yards away in an even deeper spot and he did just fine. I knew I had to correct this issue or I would have a bank running return problem on my hands or even worse a bank running entry. So the duck hunting got put on hold a bit, my buddy had sore ribs from laughing at me wadding in the cold water and we still shot 8 ducks before we called it a day. It cut the hunt short but you have to be prepared when you are forming these life long hunting buddies..

Good luck

Jeff

PS wading in cold water and ecouraging a dog and going out of your way to only giving positive signals to your dog is the AMISH way..I could have put a rope on him and drug him back too, but something had bothered his confidence out there, so I had to show him it was ok. Not like Rick's area though, I haven't seen a gator here in ages...lol...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jeff Faycosh,

Josh, Charles is right. I may have had one too many last night. There are too many things that can go wrong.

Well, I messed him up for good this time!!

Just kidding!! I decided after some conversation with a hunting buddy of mine this morning that I was going to go ahead and take him!

We took my buddies lab along, for a short trip to a local pond we hunt.

Morning started off rough, because gauge wanted to play with my buddies lab. But after the got to know each other for about 15 min they both settled down!

I let gauge watch, widgeon go after a downed woodie right at first light.

The second shot my buddy took was on a hen woodie, and it was like a light bulb went on for the pup.

I held him in heel for about a 1 minute, then sent him with a "hunt it up."

1. No rocks were thrown

2. Every movement was controled by us two

3. My buddy tossed a few bumpers we we first got out there from behind a tree

4. light load 20 gauges were used

5. we socialized the dogs before walking out to the pond

6. gauges lead didn't come off till I figured out how he would react

End result: 2 hen wood ducks delievered to an eager owner on shore! Ill post pics later today, for now Im going to be with the greatest dog I have ever owned. It was freakin beautiful.

I took everyones opinion into account, and I was nervous all moring. But I took everything very slow and precise!

So either I am the biggest fool that has ever graced this wonderful website, or I have a slight clue and need to follow my instints more.

Sorry if me following my own intuition hurt anyones feelings, but I just had too

Josh

Josh

Glad it worked for you. It sounds like you used some sense when doing it. Just remember slow and careful.

Jeff

I was extremely careful, but that is his last hunt this year. I am going to end it on a positive note, and work on getting him ready for next season!

I think watching my buddies lab helped a ton! He is sleeping off the excitement now!

Josh, I was going to recommend you work with Gauge with another dog, but didn't know if you hunted with anyone with a working dog. You are right. Gauge will learn from the other dog. It's easier to understand concepts, from a dog's perspective, with visual stimulation rather than verbal/vocal stimulation. Consider how easier you understand something if you can look at an illustration or view a video rather than merely read written instructions. Same for the dog.
(you can also watch hunting TV programs or better yet, get hunting videos that show a dog retrieving. Gauge will also learn
from this, but actually being with another dog is ideal.) Gauge's training will become easier & at a smoother pace since he now has a basic concept of what hunting is. I know you're proud & happy with Gauges' behavior/performance now. Enjoy.
Charlie

added: PS Greg, actually don't 'sell your idea short'. If Josh did not hunt and ONLY worked/trained with Gauge, your idea would be good, if Josh could maintain total control. The actual hunting experience is the ideal situation to teach/train.

Charlie,

I completely agree! He watched my friend's lab like clock work. It was just like he was studying him. I was pretty impressed with him. Now he has duck fever, and I have a hard time taking him down by the lake. And he watches the geese fly over more!!

I think this really did benefit him, though as I said earlier he is done for the season. Now back to yard work and obedience.

Josh

Josh, Currious. You wrote "End result: 2 hen wood ducks delievered to an eager owner on shore! Ill post pics later today, for now Im going to be with the greatest dog I have ever owned. It was freakin beautiful." Also "I let gauge watch, widgeon go after a downed woodie right at first light." Did GAUGE retrieve ducks to hand?? Or was is Widgeon (Lab??)?
If Gauge retrieved, you might want to repeat the hunting day again, but with a twist. First, you don't hunt but your friend does. Second, Bring both dogs - Gauge & Widgeon. Third, alternate sending dogs to retrieve prey.(ie, Widgeon gets/retrieves the first duck, then it's Gauges' turn. Back & forth between two dogs). Since you are not hunting, you control/handle both dogs. Remove lead/leash to send one at a time. Gauge will gain more experience and the observation of watching another dog will be invaluable.

Jeff "So 30 degrees out, I was in chest deep water encouraging him to come through the spot that he was leering of. We got him comfortable with that place and I took him 150 yards away in an even deeper spot and he did just fine". It is amazing
what we will do for our beloved chessies. A few months after I got Chelsea, she hurt her leg/shoulder and her walking was
limited. About 45*F outside, she could not get back into the apartment. A large flight of steps scared her. So I put on my
camo jumpsuit grabbed a blanket for her, and a large pillow to share. Was around 9pm. I wrapped her snuggly and lied in the 'fire zone' in front of the building on the pavement with her. Around 6am, a passing neighbor ran over (thought I was hurt). I awoke, shook Chelsea. She got up, tugged my sleeve, and upon seeing I was alright, proceeded to climb the stairs to go inside. (I would not do that for my wife - well maybe (smile)). Got To LOVE Those Chessies. They grow on you!!Charlie

Charlie,

Gauge retrieved two wood ducks to me, though he didn't actually give them to me in hand. He dropped them both in exchange for a treat!

Either way, he still made the retrieves. It was amazing. I have never owned a pup this young that would retrieve like that!

I would like to find some people close to me that have more experience than me! So that they can give me pointers, in exchange for money or help with their dogs.

I want him to reach his full potential, and I feel like I am limiting him with my inept experience. If anyone is from NW Indiana, let me know.

Josh