Teal is done with the trainer, i am supposed to go back but they won't return my calls. SO... forward. I am back from canada and teal is no longer sick, its not 110 any more and i need to work the dog. question: I was told teal would never learn whistle or hand signals cause he cant take the collar. ( i have seen no problem with the e collar on him and i have worked it) How do i now teach teal hand signals while being easy on the e collar? Remember i am a rookie.

John, I've trained ten gundogs to take whistles and hand signals without e-, but I've not done so without better instruction than the hodgepodge of advice snippets trying to train by Internet usually draws. Do yourself and your pup the favor of purchasing a good training book that details the training process in a cohesive manner.

The Dahl's "Ten Minute Retriever" or Spencer's "Training Retrievers for Marshes and Meadows" would be a couple easy to follow reference examples.

quote:

Originally posted by john parkin:
I was told teal would never learn whistle or hand signals cause he cant take the collar.

FALSE!

John dogs were stopping on whistles and handling before e-collars were ever invented.

The keys are: mainataining a high level of accurracy in your yard work, breaking down each task into simple repeatable components that have a high probability of success, and sloooowly incorporate this into field work.

As Rick said utilize books(and people if available). Especially the authors that have trained without a transmitter.

Tim

Rick got the book and read it. Now i am picking brains here for alternative ideas or little secrets that may help

Hey John,

John I don't think there are little secrets especially doing basics and yardwork other then high standards, consistency and working hard everyday!

I have.....for 25 years trained without a collar and it is simple.......like Tim said break it down......take each step and review thoroughly before moving on!

Use a checkcord and when the dog can do it by your side, at the end of the checkcord, in yard off cord etc........you keep progressing and he will get it!

Mike M will definitely add some valuable input as he trains all age dogs without a collar.

Remember there is no secrets to basics.....find a program and follow........you will do awesome!

These references might get you going on the right track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Mfg0ReR_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM8ySAOngnM

http://www.gundogsonline.com/A...g-Handling-Page1.htm


http://www.rushcreekpress.com/...lossaryarticles.html

thanks for the links i will check them out, and thanks for the encouragement. Teal is doing retrieves, heals, holds and delivers! I guess i was a little vague on the e collar though. Teal has no problem with a little nick for correction. I was wondering since this is the case should i take the same approach the trainer did and start out without the collar and then reinforce with the collar or use the collar from the get go? Keep in mind i was told my dog could not handle any pressure from and e collar from the trainer. He was wrong! Funny thing is this trainer had no idea that teal when barking to much gets a bark collar and knows whats up and no longer barks. LOL Our dogs are not stupid!!

Thanks Paul for the confidence but I am having trouble with my young chessie sitting on a dime right now. But there is no secrete to getting a dog to sit on a whistle. Basic obedience. Walk heel toot. (on lead). When doing baseball toot then cast. No magic.

If the dog likes his work, following sit whistles with a tossed bumper just as soon as Pup's butt hits the ground can help condition quick sits in dogs that aren't taught to sit in order to try to beat an e-nick.

quote:

Originally posted by john parkin:
Teal is done with the trainer, i am supposed to go back but they won't return my calls. SO... forward. I am back from canada and teal is no longer sick, its not 110 any more and i need to work the dog. question: I was told teal would never learn whistle or hand signals cause he cant take the collar. ( i have seen no problem with the e collar on him and i have worked it) How do i now teach teal hand signals while being easy on the e collar? Remember i am a rookie.

Just curious did the trainer tell you at what level they were using the collar. :-(

quote:

Originally posted by john parkin:
question: I was told teal would never learn whistle or hand signals cause he cant take the collar.

My preferred method of teaching blind retrieves involves very little application of the ecollar, and what there is, mainly on force to pile, could easily be left out. Forcing to pile with a stick is time-honored and effective.

By keeping sessions short, and proceeding at a rate that keeps the dog interested (not too slow) but not confused (not too fast), dogs can be taught all of their casts, lining up the middle, and handling on a variety of drills. Show them and repeat.

'Way down the road, when the dog is lining and handling smoothly and I'm working on "factors," I reintroduce the collar for situations in which there are multiple refusals on the same cast. First refusal, immediately stop the dog and repeat. Second refusal, whistle the dog back to where he was initially stopped, and repeat. Third refusal, stop him, whistle him back, and either move closer to him or give him a nick as indirect pressure.

Dogs can be so soft as to be difficult to train, but leaving out the ecollar does not need to slow you down on lining and casting training.

Amy Dahl

Thanks Amy. Teal has been moving along nicely. Had a very good controled duck shoot and has been pleasant to train. Still moving foreward. This has not been as hard as i thought!!

I'm really glad to hear that. It can be tough training on your own without in-person help. I'm glad you seem to have got past the disparaging comments about Teal's trainability. Sounds like he respects you and is working with you.

Amy Dahl

Amy, this was the first time i have used a trainer and i am a hunter first. Widgeon who i lost last year was just a great hunter. After reading this site several books, (including 10 min.) I thought of trying the hunt test thing. I think Teal has what it takes but the question is, do i have the time? The trainer said he was ready for a JH but could not ever be better. I don't beleive that at all. The only thing holding Teal up is me. Once i saw him duck hunting i said to myself, "what more can i want than a great dog, shotgun and friends" Thanks again for responding and the knowledge i use in your book. thanks again

Ready for JH but can never be better? What an ass that guy is! I have been in the hunt tests just 1 year. I have seen 1 year old dogs with no training whatsoever pass juniors with just a few weekends of training.(chessies) John I think you turned a corner that I turned awhile ago. You are now having more fun. You now are gaining confidence in yourself as well as Teal. You guys are a team. Go outthere with a kick ass attitude full of confidence and let the cards fall were they may. Find a hunt test enter make the time and go run! You will be nervous but will have fun. Lots of people to talk to and possably train with. Just a pep talk a few gave me and really helped me step up.
Best of luck!