Genetics in Tail set of the Chesapeake Bay Retriever.

I need some solid information , preferably a book or journal etc. , that will help me understand how breeding certain dogs with undesirable tails will effect their offspring.

Does anyone know of any books that I can get to help me understand the issue of bad tails in breeding Chesapeake Bay retrievers ?


Thabking you in advance,

Kent

I don't know about tails...the actual tail set is a function of the anatomy but whether or not it curls? I have a book I got at an ACC sponsored breeding seminar called the ABCs of Dog Breeding, What every breeder should know by Claudia Waller Orlandi, PhD that goes into detailed explanations of genetic faults. Not sure if it specifically addresses curled tails. Seems to me someone might know the inheritance mode of that trait? I doubt you'd find any entire book devoted to it since there are far worse genetic problems out there.

Thanks Julie and I hope you are doing well. My primary goal is to learn everything I can about how a dog passes on an undesirable trait such as this tail thing. Yes there are more important traits that are far worse however the tail seems to be judged as a major thing.

Pity for something so severely penalized for there is no written evidence or viable documents available .

I have an incredible animal I would like to breed to with a severely curly tail and have been told that breeding to her would pass this along.

Perhaps but I think it is still a crap shoot and unless I can get some hard literature I think I am leaning towards giving a roll of the dice here.

How is this unethical ?

Kent

Kent - Liberty's brother had one heck of a curly tail....donut tail, actually....I have read (though can't remember where) that having a curl in the tail is a dominant trait (which would explain the fact that many breeds have curly tails)...so if you want to decrease the risk of having pups with curly tails, you will be best off finding a stud of your liking who comes from a line of 'straight' tails...personally, I don't think I would make too big an issue of it.

Juli

Thanks Juli

I guess you are ready for spring.

Not making an issue of it. However I am looking for solid information .

There are those who believe it is unethical to breed to a gay tailed animal and I am seeking research that takes the guesswork out of it.

I am smart enough to have common sense to know that staying away from a potential problem guarantees no problem. That doesn't help me any though.

Not making an issue of it still doesn't prove or disprove breeding to a animal with a gay tail is going to produce the same in part or whole.

What would you do if you had an outstanding stud that was a CH and hell of a hunting dog and you wanted to breed to an outstanding bitch with a gay tail with a DC sire and QAA CH dam ?

Not for business or profit but for my own pick and possible gifts to my hunting partners.

It is a pretty important decision don't you think ?

Kent

"There are those who believe it is unethical to breed to a gay tailed animal and I am seeking research that takes the guesswork out of it."

I guess I am unethical then. My stud dog has a gay tail and I breed him and will continue to breed him. He is one hell of a hunter and family dog with a great personality. I would take a gay tail over a crappy personality with no desire anyday. The gay tailed chessie's I have seen in the hunt test game have been some of the most powerful chessies out there. I am a veterinary technician and believe that I am a ethical breeder and the tail doesn't bother me. As far as I know it isn't stated in the breed standards for a chessie that a gay tail is a fault. Yes "show" people frown on it but if trialing/hunting dog lines are what you want then so be it. My dogs sire had a gay tail, I talked to a breeder who bred this sire to her bitch 3 times (her tail was normal) and she said about 1/2 of the puppys had gay tails. She was breeding for hunting also so she never had a problem selling her pups. My female I have out of my male could go either way. When she is running a trial her tail curls but when she is walking around or in a show stand it is normal. I think it is all personal prefrence. If you are going to sell "Show" quality dogs then yes, you probally don't want to breed to a gay tail but for hunting and pet quaility then why not. Like said before there are alot more severly undesirable traits out there I would concider first.

Kent

Unfortunately having a CH in the front of a dogs name does not guarantee that the dog/bitch does not have a gay tail, correct bite or is void of any conformation/structural fault.

For myself I would not hesitate to breed to a stud or breed our stud to a bitch that had a gay tail. Personally I would be more interested in the overall structure and soundness of the animal then how it carried it's tail........

If I had a hunting dog that was sound and proven to be a great hunting dog that had all the health clearances we all are concerned about, plus a good temperament, was bidable etc. I would not hesitate to breed her/him (if that is what I choose to do) weather it had a gay tail or not.....there is no perfect dog, retriever, or even CBR

Norene S.

Norene

Thank you. I know you have been a long time Chessie professional and your words speak volumes. Good things you and your other half have done for this breed too.

Now we are getting somewhere. You see here in California and surrounded by the breeder trap as I like to say there are folks who believe that breeding to a gay tailed bitch or dog is unethical and a bad thing .

I believe that the Chessie tail is a tool to pull ones self out of the mud. LOL

Joking aside I have two wondeful Peakes that run circles around any of the duck dogs we hunt around and my male is lucky enough to be a CH with 2 legs up on his JH title . I own a bitch out of Canvas X Raggs and OK OK she has that famous curled tail .

My daughter is a very accomplished 11 year old handler who shows the dogs and I want to keep all ends open .

Do you believe the risk leans more or less towards getting gay tails or like i believe in , that it's all a crap shoot ?

That's why I was hoping for books or documents that prove or disprove that it is a 50/50 chance no matter what.


To all the others who responded thank you as well.

Kent

PS I pretty much am sure I am breeding my two dogs to each other anyway after seeing them work , live , and play together as it appears they were meant to be together. Outstanding animals too !

quote:

Originally posted by Crossfire Hurricane:
Do you believe the risk leans more or less towards getting gay tails or like i believe in , that it's all a crap shoot?

Kent........Thanks for your kind words.

Dom and I had a dog who had a very very gay tail, **Sir Hopeful of Nordom MH WDQ. Sir's sire and dam did not and very few of his offsping did.......I would agree with you that it's all a cray shoot!!!

quote:

PS I pretty much am sure I am breeding my two dogs to each other anyway after seeing them work , live , and play together as it appears they were meant to be together. Outstanding animals too !

It's apparent how much you care for your dogs and the breed. Good Luck with your breeding plans.........Happy Showing, Testing and Hunting with your guy and gal!

Norene S.