Are you up front with the history of DM in your litter of puppies?

Question:
Do you tell the puppy buyer that there maybe or maybe not a history of DM in this line of puppies?

Choices:
No. DM has not been proven to be genetic.
Yes. DM may be a genetic problem.
Avoid the question.

 

heh...it will be interesting to see how many people vote here!

I chose number 2 (that is WHEN I have a litter...LOL) - honesty is the best policy!

Juli

What evidence do you have that it is a genetic problem? Especially a inherited genetic problem? This is not to take DM lightly or say that it doesn't cause severe dibilitation to the dogs that it afflicts. But looking at ACCs recent health survey, very few dogs have been diagnosed with DM in the breed.

Looking at Tiger's case specifically, and the possible evidence that his siblings are also afflicted, would point to a major catastrophic potential for the disease in the entire breed. Tiger represents the most prevelent ancestory in Chessie field lines.

Using genetic probability, for an entire litter to be afflicted would indicate that both sire and dam are also afflicted (yield 100% afflicted) or possible one afflicted and one a carrier (yield 75% afflicted) assuming single allele loci. Or at best both parents being carriers would yield 25% afflicted. Look at Tiger's pedigree. If DM is a genetically transmitted disease you would expect to see a huge incidence of the disease, with a significant level of incidence in other lines of Tiger's ancestory based on the extensively number of times they have been crossbred.

The large number of (possible) afflicted from this litter would tend to point more towards something environmental that may have occured during pregnancy, whelp or early puppy stages, than to a genetic link. Not to say that there isn't a gnetic link, but more to the point that we don't know the cause and until we have more information, it is best not to make assumptions.

T. Mac

Good point T. Mac. How about the one out of the same line born in Canada and another out of the same line born outside of Chicago [not Tiger's breeder].

Billie,
Check with Linda for her records of her litter SR028066 as this litter should be most suspect (Tiger doubled back on a Renegade Red bitch.) The dogs should be just around 4+ years old now. I had a bitch out of this litter but she was killed 2 years ago. She had a litter by a Clipper grandson and I can readily access at least 3 pups from that litter for testing if you desire.

T. Mac

Tom -- We need all the help we can get. All the environmental factors were tested. There were several Lab litters born in the same area with no DM reported.

Billy

I would disclose it. If the puppy buyer is familiar with the breed they should've heard of it and if not it's a chance to educate them.

quote:

Originally posted by B Smith:
Tom -- We need all the help we can get. All the environmental factors were tested. There were several Lab litters born in the same area with no DM reported.

Billy

Billy,

Do you know if the owners of the dogs from subsequent litters that produced Tiger been contacted? Per my records, there were 2 repeat breedings, one with 12 pups whelped 10/21/99 and a breeding yeilding 5 pups whelped 3/30/01. (I can forward you dog's names and AKC #s if you need, but do not have owners names) Follow up results from these dogs would be most informative as to possible genetics.

T. Mac

Tom -- don't know, but the breeder should. These dogs are just starting to be old enough to start show sings of DM. Tiger puppies are not o;d enough yet.

Julie............as a new Breeder I would definitely have a discussion about DM and actually with my repeat breeding to Canvas coming up I have had 3-4 discussions with deposit holders for this breeding.

Billy.........do we now for sure the onset of DM is later in life..........could it show up early?


Paul

Paul,

I think DM 'typically' shows up when a dog is about 9-11 yrs..give or take...BUT, it can begin as young as 5, in a few cases.

Juli

The ACC Health Survey published in the Mar/Apr 2005 Bulletin (it is on line at ACC website) indicated that while Degenerative Myelopathy was listed as among the "Top 10" Most Common/Serious Diseases of Chesapeakes, only 7.4% of respondents considered it most common and 3.0% most serious.
Interesting. . .

Having owned a bitch that was confirmed with DM in 1998 post mortem and being her breeder I know that there was not much known about DM at that time. There were a few other owners that had dogs with the same symptoms mine had, but the 4 generation pedigrees had no dog's in common. As the onset is later in life I do not think many owners spent the money for a necropsy, so a diagnosis was never made.How large or small a problem DM is in the breed is unknown. Chessies not living past 9 or 10 makes me suspect, did the dogs die naturally or were they put down, and if they were put down why? This breed did have a long life span, many healthy dogs lived to 14-16 yrs, might have been deaf and a litle slower but they were still around. Thanks so much to Billy Smith for being as vocal as he is on this heartache that besets many fine animals. It is my belief that the entire Chesapeake community should be discussing the possibility of any Chessie having DM.

quote:

Originally posted by Pat & Doug Puwal:
The ACC Health Survey published in the Mar/Apr 2005 Bulletin (it is on line at ACC website) indicated that while Degenerative Myelopathy was listed as among the "Top 10" Most Common/Serious Diseases of Chesapeakes, only 7.4% of respondents considered it most common and 3.0% most serious.
Interesting. . .

Pat & Doug,

(web address of the survey results = http://amchessieclub.org/survey/index.html )

Note that those are numbers from the questionaire based on the respondants' perception of the top 10 diseases in the breed, and rank DM with a 7 out of 10 ranking. Even more interesting is that if you continue down the results, in a list of 15 deseases, DM ranks 13th with a 2.3% response. DM does not make the list of the top 15 in reported incidence. (Note: don't really think Hot spots and ear infections should really be included in this list) Anyway, the responses appear very inconsistent.

Further in the survey with results of over 3500 dogs, DM had a reported incidence of 1.7% with what looks like a 2 to 1 ratio of occurance in female to male. If the 1.7% is based on the sample population of 3500+ dogs, this would represent nearly 60 afflicted dogs, 40 female and 20 male. If the 1.7% is based on the population of dogs with "problems" then these numbers could be significantly lower.

It is understood that the reported incidence of DM will be smaller than actual, as DM typically doesn't show up until the dog is 9-11 years old, and the survay shows that the Chessie life expectancy is only 9 years. Further complication is the difficulty in actually getting a DM diagnosies and DMs mimicing of several other diseases.

T. Mac