I moved this discussion over here from the puppy classifieds so no one would feel singled out, but thought it was interesting. I haven't noticed any difference really in one color over another in texture, type and undercoat.

A few years ago I might've said light deadgrass dogs seemed to have had thinner coats but I sure have seen some nice thick light deadgrass coats recently.

quote:

Originally posted by PondHollow:
One of your posts you mentioned that "ash" is rarer than you thought. The reason being is that most breeders do not retain dogs that are ash colored in their breeding programs.It is not a "new" color as it has been around since the beginning of the breed. The original Newfoundlands came in gray (called "Smoke") but that color is now a DQ in the breed. The ash color is produced by a dilution gene on the brown color. Most of the time, dogs in this color are either lacking in coat or they have been long coats. In some breeds where diluted colors occur, the dogs have more problems with their coats. But this is not a given. For this breed, the only caveat about breeding two ash colored dogs together is that over time breeding on the dilution will produce eye colors that are hazel, gray or blue. The CBR must have amber to yellow eyes.

Dyane

I would say of the ash CBRs I've seen lately they've had fabulous coats and other good qualities as well. One thing I like is that ash dogs and those that carry the ash/dilution gene, seem to produce very clear, even colors with no shading or masking.

As far as coat texture, all have had ideal, perfect coats like Sterling pictured below, although Panda's is a little different type than I'm used to. It's more of a frizz than the heavy coarse wave like in the first photo. It doesn't show up well in photos, but everyone loves to touch it and try and mash it down, it really does feel like a brillo pad.

quote:

I moved this discussion over here from the puppy classifieds so no one would feel singled out, but thought it was interesting. I haven't noticed any difference really in one color over another in texture, type and undercoat.

Julie, this is another one of those discussions that seems to come up from time to time. But to say that a dog of a particular color has a poor coat, is like saying that all red horses have white spots!

I do not believe that color and coat type or texture are related, but if one line who produces poor coat type frequently produces a particular color such as sedge or ash or deadgrass and this is all anyone sees, then one logically might think that that particular color is also synonomous with poor coats.

Genes don't work that way though.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Kathy Miller

Julie, "I haven't noticed any difference really in one color over another in texture, type and undercoat."
Dyane's post " The ash color is produced by a dilution gene on the brown color. Most of the time, dogs in this color are either lacking in coat or they have been long coats. In some breeds where diluted colors occur, the dogs have more problems with their coats. But this is not a given. For this breed, the only caveat about breeding two ash colored dogs together is that over time breeding on the dilution will produce eye colors that are hazel, gray or blue. The CBR must have amber to yellow eyes."

Julie, First time I read Dyane's post, I concluded like you did. However, after rereading it, Dyane is saying something different. The operative wording is "In some breeds where diluted colors occur, the dogs have more problems with their coats." Note "some breeds", not chessies. Also " For this breed, the only caveat about breeding two ash colored dogs together is that over time breeding on the dilution will produce eye colors that are hazel, gray or blue." Again, the wording "for this breed" (cbrs)and "the only caveat about breeding two ash colored dogs" is refering NOT to coat color, texture, or type, but merely the result will produce eye colors that are hazel, gray, or blue".

Dyane is saying two ash bred together can result in eye color pigmentation changes from the standard, not the coat.

Just trying to point out her post is not how you (and I initially) interpreted it. Help it clearifies. Charlie

Geesh, you all are boring!! I'm trying to revive one of the dullest sections on this forum by starting a discussion.
I didn't want to start any arguments over which color or even coat texture is better, just wanted to hear people's opinions from their personal experience. If I wanted to start a pile on flame fest, we have another section for that

How about everyone posts a photo of what color and coat type they have a particular fondness for????

Julie my opinion. When you have the chessie training day? Make it in Jan, Feb or March - please. I would like to attend. Have missed all of them due to field trials

quote:

How about everyone posts a photo of what color and coat type they have a particular fondness for????

I love deadgrass but can't get photos to post here....maybe because I don't have them on some kind of accessible website! Any suggestions as I have a great deadgrass picture that's in the Christmas mood!!

Kathy

Kathy, maybe you can do as I do to post pics. I have but don't use a photobucket account so I upload pictures from the computer to post here. Click the browse button to locate the pic you want on your computer, then select that pic. Usually that is all you have to do. then when you post, the pic appears as the file name for the picure. Anyone viewing the board just has to click on the link and the picture appears in a pop-up window. (like all my pics posted here.)
Hope this helps. Charlie

Edited: Julie, Since Chelsea is my first chessie, no experience of actual dogs coat & color differences. However, viewing
all the different peake posted here, I could speculate abit. Liking the deadgrass color after seeing Dancer (Noreen's) and my wife appears to agree. She 'fell in love' with dancer's pic posted here. I also like the sedge (if that is like the pup you have on the pic in truck bed with Puffin and crew). Coat type. Well Chelsea's hair is more 'flat', except around neck).
But even there it is not heavily wavy like some peakes. Your avatar (dog's back) but with abit more fullness (cannot remember who's dog here is like what I'm getting at). Almost like a 'mini lion's mane'. But any peake will do - BIG GRIN!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dr Charles Bortell PhD,

To throw a wrench in, color could matter depending on where you hunt as to natural camo. Cornfield, marsh etc. Also, I'm not an expert but a good coat helps the dog when hunting here in New England. First I want water to come off easy and coat to dry fast. My older chessie has a nice coat when he was younger he stayed warm with age he seems to get cold faster. My young chessie has a shitty coat but he seems to stay warm. Why I don't know. Not much of a coat but very oily. But hell I wouldn't care if he had three legs and one ear as long as he picks up birds with drive.

Where i hunt in the MS delta my deadgrass male has perfect camo and he has a great coat . And i aggree with you color dont make the dog ,,,Dark Brown , Light Brown , ASH , Tan , Sedge or Deadgrass as long as its a nice dog with a good coat and can pick up the water chickens i could care less . I have hunted with an Ash ,,,and i have to say for overall camo the Ash blends better than any . It works great in flooded timber , flooded fields , willow breaks ,,,the Ash just seems to blend with what ever is around , so i would not think twice in owning an Ash ..........just my 2 cents .

Here is my deadgrass i think he blends pretty well ,,,plus he works great so it would not matter if he was Blue

Favorite Coat-Color - whatever!!!

The breeder chose Dancer for me - color, believe me it didn't matter, she could have had pink stripes with purple polka-dots and I wouldn't have cared (but glad she didn't )...

The photo is of her this last summer....shows her summer coat.....fall/winter same color but very thick with tight waves....just perfect!!!! ...Hunting - she blends in well with all the tall light deadgrass we have where we hunt!!!



Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

quote:

Click the browse button to locate the pic you want on your computer, then select that pic. Usually that is all you have to do. then when you post, the pic appears as the file name for the picure. Anyone viewing the board just has to click on the link and the picture appears in a pop-up window. (like all my pics posted here.)
Hope this helps. Charlie

Charlie, I couldn't find a browse button!! I see the URL box on the top of the message template but it doesn't let me browse .

I'm not very computer literate!!

Kathy Miller

Kathy, found the problem but not sure why. Certain boards have the option, some do not.

Suppose you posted on the "chat" board. When you click on "reply" (or start a new thread), the Post A Reply window appears
This window is where I find the 'browse button'. Underneath the blue screen where you type message is a yellow colored
link that says "add attachment?". When you click on this, it expands to a "file source/browse" menu. Here is where you click on the "browse" button. A listing of all your computer files appears. Here select the file/picture you want to post.
Then fill in file description (I use file name). When you finish and click "post now", your post (written) and the link to open your picture appears.

Starting a new thread, replying on "chat", the "flaming orfice" have this "add attacment?" option. Noticed that this board doesnot. Maybe some others too. (maybe Billy or others familiar with set-up can expain why).

Try posting your pic (deadgrass) on any "chat" thread (try my "remembering" thread) or start a new "chat" topic/thread to post picture. I am not very computer literate too so if I can do it...

Suggested the "remembering" thread because it is dedicated to our past (but never forgotten) chessies. Try posting a pic of
your dear Rusty with a memorial word. Then you can try out this method of posting pics. Best Regards, Charlie

quote:

Suggested the "remembering" thread because it is dedicated to our past (but never forgotten) chessies. Try posting a pic of
your dear Rusty with a memorial word. Then you can try out this method of posting pics. Best Regards, Charlie

Thanks Charlie, but I think Billy was monitoring this thread and posted another warning not to post pictures as it takes up too much server space.

Suffice to say my Sara is a lovely clear deadgrass with no shading and an terrific water repellant coat.

Kathy

Kathy, Billy is correct about the server space but I think he is more concerned with the numerous post with posting alot of
pictures on one post and the large size (file size) of these pics - some are like 8x10's on the screen. They 'eat up alot'
of space. Read Billy's post. He said Links are OK and you can post a few pictures - just don't abuse the privilege.
You have not posted any pics. I don't think Billy will be upset with your posting a few. His concern lies more with the numerous large pics consistently being posted - ie every hunting adventure, or the non dog related pics (like on the flaming orifice). I agree with Billy because it is unnecessary. But like he said, links or a few pics are "OK".

Kathy, you never posted any before so lets see one of the sweet Sara DG. And maybe a Rusty tribute to practice. Charlie

Kathy, If you feel hesitant to post Sara's picture, please send me an e-mail (you have address) with an attachment of Sara's pic. I really would love to see her. Also any info on her. Thanks. Charlie

quote:

If you feel hesitant to post Sara's picture, please send me an e-mail (you have address) with an attachment of Sara's pic. I really would love to see her. Also any info on her. Thanks. Charlie

Charlie I sent you a private e-mail to drcharlesbortellphd@verizon.net with pictures of Sara.....feel free to post them. Let me know if you didn't get my e-mail.

Kathy

I have to say that I like the color of my Tanner the best. Dyane called it a chestnut, I believe that was her description. It's not sedge, light brown, or dark deadgrass. A very unusual color. I also like his coat texture, not long, easy to shake off, very brillo. I wish it would be just a HAIR longer and undercoat a little more dense, that is if he was going to be shown. But from a utility standpoint, I'm guessing his coat would be perfect for hunting from a boat. His coat does not load up with water.

I would say of the ash CBRs I've seen lately they've had fabulous coats and other good qualities as well. One thing I like is that ash dogs and those that carry the ash/dilution gene, seem to produce very clear, even colors with no shading or masking.

As far as coat texture, all have had ideal, perfect coats like Sterling pictured below, although Panda's is a little different type than I'm used to. It's more of a frizz than the heavy coarse wave like in the first photo. It doesn't show up well in photos, but everyone loves to touch it and try and mash it down, it really does feel like a brillo pad.

Julie,

Actually the early breeders selected away from the coarse brillo pad coat you describe as it lacked the thickness/density of undercoat that was felt necessary for maintaining warmth. I have observed from breeding that if one constantly selects only short brillo pad like coats, the coats "wear" poorly-dogs develop areas without hair easily and have very little undercoat.

You may have missed my point about the ash color and coat quality. Since few breeders choose to work with the color, the quality of ash colored dogs is much more variable than other colors simply due to this fact. Coat as one example needs to be consistently selected for. Many of the ash colored dogs I have seen have been very smooth or on the other hand long coated. But there have certainly been ash colored dogs with good coats and qualities. But again, with few people breeding this color and working on fixing coat or conformation qualities, the ash colored dogs will be much more variable in coat & conformation quality.

I have seen a number of marked ash colored dogs including tan pointed ash dogs. The markings are independent of the dilution gene. You may not have run into any marking because the dogs you have simply lack the recessive for the marking variations.

I had no problem with you saying they are rare because they are rare-due to few people interested in breeding them.

Dyane

Dyane, I agree no one does (or should) breed for the ash color. I don't breed for it specifically but like smiling I enjoy it when it appears. As for the brillo coat, Panda's is only the second one I've whelped; the other one with a similar coat is a bright red sedge. All my other ash pups have had fabulous coats.

I've never seen any marked ash dogs, in fact the main thing I like about the color is it's very easily identifiable from birth because the ones I've had have been completely devoid of any shadings. I just assumed the dilution gene probably also diluted any markings such as widows peaks or tan points since I've never seen them. In fact Claire McCall and I have joked we wanted an ash brindle...LOL.

I'm completely fine with anyone discussing the negative aspects of ash colored dogs or using ash colored dogs in a breeding program or even the flaws of MY dogs, ash or otherwise. What I was not comfortable with in that discussion on CBRs4me was my ethics being held up for discussion by someone I've never even met. In the first place the ad Kim described as unethical was most certainly not, and in the second place having my ads described as unethical brings into question my ethics in general and specifically breeding, marketing and selling puppies. It made me mad then and still makes me mad now.

Dyane, I had no problem with your concerns about the ash color, associated flaws you'd seen and using it in a breeding program; it was all in how you worded them. There was nothing 'attacking' or personal about it. Unlike that other person who clearly had an agenda.

Well i might as well throw in my 2 cents ,,,(I) have an ASH female who has a GREAT coat and conformation , and she is a working girl . I love her color ,,,but thats not what makes her rare its her heart .



And yes i did get her from Julie ,,who i can not thank enough ......CC