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We have a litter due June 1st. Sire is Abernaki Turk of Westwind (Ch Westwind Abernaki Chief***MH X Flatland's Mega Blizzard). Dam is "Tiki" (Nordais's Canadian Mist -
CH Clipper's Frozen Assets** X Nordais Distagon's Douce WCX MH***). Turk and Tiki are both A/N for DM. Both have current hip and eye certifcations. Pups will be medium to dark brown. Pups from past litters have been excellent in all respects. $700 each. We can ship anywhere in the U.S. Pedigrees, photos, and other information can be viewed on our website: http://stonebrokekennels.wordpress.com/new-litters/ Thanks! |
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Kent,
the only thing you can know with absolute certainty, when going into a breeding of carrier to carrier, is that the sire and dam are carrier and carrier... statistically a breeding like this - ea pup will have 1/4 chance of being at risk or normal, and 1/2 chance of being carrier...but you could end up with completely unexpected results in any given litter. Juli ________________ Chessies are kinda like potato chips, you know you can't have just one. Skyview Chesapeakes |
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I see it just the opposite...as less choice...unless you don't care about the DM status, and then your choices are the same as they were before the DM 'risk assessment' test was developed. INterestingly, I talked to a guy yesterday that didn't know about DM (has had chessies for 30+ yrs), never heard of it. And when I explained it to him, his response was that (from a factual point of view) these dogs have seen a majority of their hunting/working carreer by the time they are 9 yrs old, there are a lot worse diseases to be concerned with. ... So it makes one wonder to what extent something as vague as 'he might have DM' is really going to affect a lot of puppy buyers that have no interest in breeding. Juli ________________ Chessies are kinda like potato chips, you know you can't have just one. Skyview Chesapeakes |
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Mathematically speaking, if two carriers are bred the odds are that 25% of the pups will be N/N, 25% of the pups will be A/A, 50% of the pups will be A/N. The odds of all of the pups in a litter of 10 being all A/A, A/N, or N/N are extremely slim. I don't recall how to calculate this (I didn't exactly set the world on fire when I took statistics in college), but there is a formula for determing the odds of various outcomes of this breeding if I remember correctly.
I've read pretty much everything that's out there on DM, and quite frankly I'm getting very tired of it all. Not to minimize the problem, but I personally think it's been blown way out of proportion. Until they can determine why some dogs that are A/A are affected while others are not, in my humble opinion it's all still a crapshoot. To boil it all down, at this point in time all a DNA test result of A/A means is that a dog may show signs of DM in it's later years. To discard all of the great lines that have been established over many years because of somthing that may or may not happen in the twilight years of a dog's life does not make a lot of sense to me. |
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To me the issue is about 98% education of the buyer and 2% breeder's choice. If I sell pups to any "newbie" buyer we are going to have a health disucssion, including DM, even though I'll be doing an N/N to an N/A. Remember A/A is only at risk. And we don't know what % of A/A is really at risk. IMHO Kevin Shaffer |
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correction noted
 Juli ________________ Chessies are kinda like potato chips, you know you can't have just one. Skyview Chesapeakes |
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This is the point. This test result is ONLY talking about ONE gene that indicates a dog MAY be susceptible to developing DM. MAYBE. You have got the right take on this all-it is only to be viewed as a minor flaw like a bad topline, etc. It is a multiple gene disease. The odds are as Lisa describes. You could in theory in breeding a N/N to a A/N get all of one or the other combination or 50% of each. To get the 50%, you generally need 50 offspring to see the breakdown. A/N to A/N as Lisa broke down except here to flip a coin you would need one that indicted three different results. I agree with Juli that it affects people more about not breeding to or a, then breeding a dog. Dyane |
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Did Not consider wusing two coins LOL. Dyane |
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Well, I never intending for my post on announcing an upcoming litter of pups to be a lesson in genetics, but that's how threads go.
 This is pretty basic genetics...like genetics 101. The same principle applies to coat color in Springers. You can breed two black/white springers and if both carry the recessive gene for liver statistically speaking 50% of the pups will be liver/white because they inherited the two recessive genes for liver, 25% of the pups will be black and white but will carry one recessive gene for liver, and 25% of the pups will be black and white with both genes inherited being dominate for the color black.. This is much easier to show with a chart than it is to explain... |
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Lisa,
Your right, of course. What I was attempting to explain was the theory that the genetics are based on. Like I said, what you are referring to as far as the numbers go is referred to as the "Standard Deviation" if I remember my statistics classes correctly....in other words, the larger the number of times you flip the coins, the smaller the deviation from the 25:50:25 ratio. In theory, if you flip the coins 10,000 times you should be much closer to the 25:50:25 ratio than if you only flipped them 100 times. The pups are going fast....you all better grab one!!! |
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