Hi Everyone!
Myself, my wife and 2 kids are looking to put a deposit on a female pup to be ready for March or later. We are willing to wait for an "Ash" but have only found 1 breeder (Hope Farms) who seems to consistently have "Ash" pups. Anyone else know of any breeders who are consistently getting "Ash's"? I have already contacted Hope Farms. Are all deposits nonrefundable after birth? I believe they are unless someone can tell me otherwise... My only problem is, if I wait for someone to have a litter with "Ash's", they most likely will already be spoken for. However if I put a deposit on a pup and it doesn't produce an "Ash", I am out my deposit... Any advice?...

What is ash? Never heard that term for color. Do you mean seage or deadgrass

No, Ash is a recognized color... Apparently more rare than I thought... You can see this color if you check out Hope Farms website via this ad www.gundogbreeders.com/classifieds/3352.html

Any advice?

Can only speak for myself.....but I don't put color on the top of my list when purchasing a puppy.........lots of things more important than that.....but hey, that's just my opinion!

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

Norene I would have to agree 100% with you. Though my chessies are different variations of brown. Though I really like Rick Halls Deadgrass color

We've had Chessies for over 35 years and NEVER have purchased because of color. At one time or another, we have probably had every color, but that is never the reason for selection of the particular puppy. I look at reputation of breeder and temperament of dogs they are producing. Conformation, pedigree, titles attained by parents, grandparents, etc. all come into the equation, but not color.
Our one bench champion was deadgrass with a pale shadowing of hound masking. She was bought for field performance, temperament, trainability and conformation more than anything. Our two dogs now are plain old brown.

Of course you're not going to buy a pup off of just anyone out of their back shed... But selecting a color isn't such a bad thing, I think they look beautiful, my second choice would be a light deadgrass. I really don't think there's anything wrong with selecting a particular color once you have selected the Chesapeake... I have researched the CBR for years and had tried selecting one before we got our late chocolate lab (However at the time there was only a select number of breeders in Canada that I could find). To be criticized for selecting a color is unfair I think... That would be our personal preference, right?...

Hedge, I dont think you were criticized for that however, when you put something in print it can be taken out of context. For example how about asking the forum for a breeder of reputation, bloodlines and health and then inquire about the ash color. Nothing wrong with a personal preference at all but if you take the original post verbatim, Your are just someone looking for an ash colored chessie and seemed to be more interested in the money and color. (not a cut, just how i read it)

In this puppy section I do remember someone having ash color pups. Scroll through and you may find it. good luck in your search,

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Hi Everyone!
Myself, my wife and 2 kids are looking to put a deposit on a female pup to be ready for March or later. We are willing to wait for an "Ash" but have only found 1 breeder (Hope Farms) who seems to consistently have "Ash" pups. Anyone else know of any breeders who are consistently getting "Ash's"? I have already contacted Hope Farms. Are all deposits nonrefundable after birth? I believe they are unless someone can tell me otherwise... My only problem is, if I wait for someone to have a litter with "Ash's", they most likely will already be spoken for. However if I put a deposit on a pup and it doesn't produce an "Ash", I am out my deposit... Any advice?...

I may be wrong, but your post seems to be all about getting an 'ash' puppy......to the point that you would want your deposit back if the litter you are purchasing a puppy from didn't have one for you......I don't know as you will find may Chesapeake breeders that will guarantee you a 'color'...I know we wouldn't.

Of course you can choose what ever color you want.....just sayin' you are limiting yourself by putting that much importance on color.

Just my two cents....

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

quote:

Of course you're not going to buy a pup off of just anyone out of their back shed... But selecting a color isn't such a bad thing, I think they look beautiful, my second choice would be a light deadgrass. I really don't think there's anything wrong with selecting a particular color once you have selected the Chesapeake... I have researched the CBR for years and had tried selecting one before we got our late chocolate lab (However at the time there was only a select number of breeders in Canada that I could find). To be criticized for selecting a color is unfair I think... That would be our personal preference, right?...

I am a breeder of 35 years and had Lhasa Apsos prior to that. I learned early on that when you breed color is the last thing you look for so long as it's the proper color. Temperament, structure and ability are much more important ESPECIALLY in Chesapeakes where some dogs do not produce good tempermant.

I will not sell on the basis of color, consequently I will not take a deposit for a specific color. That said, I too love the deadgrass chessies and my only deadgrass is 8 years old. She was the last one of deadgrass I have produced in my litters despite the fact that my lines previously produced all colors. She doesn't even produce her color, and I would dearly love to have another deadgrass, but structure is more important to me, so I have all brown dogs now!!

Ash is even more rare and not produced by many lines. Julie's Hope Springs dogs produce it frequently and her dogs have good temperament.

When people call me for a pup and are insistant on a color that might not be produced from my litter and/or are looking for a color that's the exception, an example I like to use is what good is the dog if it's the color you want with the temperament of an alligator!

Just my two cents worth.

Kathy Miller
Sandy Oak Chesapeakes

Well, as the Hope Springs Farm owner, I've had ash pups occasionally over the years and the color is definitely in my lines. But I don't breed for it specifically. If someone wants a particular color I try to satisfy that, but it's more important to try and match disposition with buyers especially inexperienced or pet homes.





If someone will ONLY take a specific color I usually try to direct them elsewhere since it indicates to me they don't care about anything else. If all you want is a gray dog, you can buy a Weimeraner or a silver Lab. If you care about specific characteristics of the Chesapeake the color becomes much less important.

I like the color ash myself, but to me having an ash dog is kind of like having a smiler. Not something you specifically selected, but it makes you happy every time you look at the dog. That's why I like this little she-devil so much:



Edit for Moscowitz: Ash isn't one of the color choices you can select on the registration slip. But it's specifically mentioned in the breed standard and a color that's always been around in the breed. In fact my first one was in 1985. As I understand it, the color is actually the result of a recessive dilution gene that must be present on both sides to express.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Julie R.,

Wow learn something new about chessies. I don't think anyone is being critical here just a simple discussion. Before now never heard or saw ash. Interesting. Thanks Julie for the pictures.

Ok, sorry everyone, I caused quite a stir by posting my original comments... After reading it, it does sound like all I want is "Color"... Let me explain further, we don't want another dark brown dog because we are still mourning the loss of our beloved chocolate lab Brina (11 years and 3 months we had her). I know it may sound strange but we felt it would be like "Replacing" her if we got another brown retriever... We definitely would be very thorough in checking health history as well as tempermant however that could be investigated after finally finding an "Ash"... Just wanted to clarify, I'm not looking for a puppy mill dog and we aren't part time dog owners. We make our dogs part of the family and they go where we go on vacations therefore no color isn't the most important thing but for us the "Ash" or "Light deadgrass" will be a strting point for us... Just as someone selecting a male or female is for their own preferences... Hopefully this clarifies my brief initial post which on its face value sounds like an inexperienced dog owner ordering up a dog by color. In actual fact we are looking for a pup to start then have plans down the road to rescue a CBR as well...

Hedgehog, I understand, but...
You said " I know it may sound strange but we felt it would be like "Replacing" her if we got another brown retriever"
I got my chessie after my wife's yellow lab service dog died from injuries 1 yr after being hit by a car. Chelsea (chessie)
was a rescue. My wife thought the "color" issue similiar like you, but, in reality, it doesn't matter. Consider the 'brown'
color of chessies is alot different than chocolate labs. Plus personality/temperament differences. A chessie is not like the typical lab. Everyday seeing the chessie will remind you of these differences. A 'brown' chessie would not be "replacing" Brina. As everyone concluded, the temperment, disposition, and breeding is foremost, especially when children (ages) are involved. Matching the personality and disposition to the individual is extremely important on so many levels. Color is really a moot point (you can get lighter shades of brown, deadgrass, sedge, ash, but in the end, the chessie's nature, personality, and mannorisms is what you will ultimately rely on to define your chessie/dog). These characteristics (of the dog) shape your impressions of who the dog is and your attachment to the dog.

Julie. "That's why I like this little she-devil so much".
Talk of character, personality, and uniqueness.... That's the precious Panda!!! And those eyes....

Best Regards, Charlie

HH I think your topic just attracted lots of replies because some of us are inside due to cold and no Sunday hunting and in my house, human colds.

One other thing that is worth noting since you haven't had a Ches. before is it can also be very hard to select a baby puppy based on color. You will be surprised how much they can change during the first year. I've had what looked like a solid dark brown pup turn out to be a bright, strawberry blond type sedge, a deadgrass turn to brown, and a brown to a deadgrass.

Also Chessies can have markings like striping and masks with widow peaks, etc. and these also may not be evident from birth.

And of course no discussion about ash would be complete without me telling the story of Panda, the little she-devil in my other post. She was the product of a jailbreak/rape by my young male who dug out of his kennel and bred his half sister. One of those Murphy Law things, a 5 sec. tie resulting in 9 pups. Despite their inauspicious beginning, they were pretty nice pups so they sold quickly because I priced them at $500-600.

But I could not seem to sell or even give Panda away. I think I had 4 sales fall through on her. In all fairness she also got stepped on by a horse at 9 weeks which nearly severed a toe, so one of the buyers did in fact, have a legitimate reason to back out. That injury did heal, but she could not seem to learn how to swim again. Once I even had to swim out and get her at a big retriever training session in front of about 40 people. And I can assure you I am not a fetching sight in a wet t shirt! LMAO. For sure I'd have given her away that day.


This is a dog I bred in 1985, she was a deadgrass with ash littermates. That's where the color and the great smile came from, I guess! I'ts one of very few digital pictures I have of my CBRs prior to 2002.
[IMG]

OHHH thats right!! I thought it was Julie with the ash pups! Couldn't place it! Didnt know the name of your kennel either.

quote:

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Hi Everyone!
Myself, my wife and 2 kids are looking to put a deposit on a female pup to be ready for March or later. We are willing to wait for an "Ash" but have only found 1 breeder (Hope Farms) who seems to consistently have "Ash" pups. Anyone else know of any breeders who are consistently getting "Ash's"? I have already contacted Hope Farms. Are all deposits nonrefundable after birth? I believe they are unless someone can tell me otherwise... My only problem is, if I wait for someone to have a litter with "Ash's", they most likely will already be spoken for. However if I put a deposit on a pup and it doesn't produce an "Ash", I am out my deposit... Any advice?...

I see many have commented on not buying a pup based on color.

One of your posts you mentioned that "ash" is rarer than you thought. The reason being is that most breeders do not retain dogs that are ash colored in their breeding programs.It is not a "new" color as it has been around since the beginning of the breed. The original Newfoundlands came in gray (called "Smoke") but that color is now a DQ in the breed. The ash color is produced by a dilution gene on the brown color. Most of the time, dogs in this color are either lacking in coat or they have been long coats. In some breeds where diluted colors occur, the dogs have more problems with their coats. But this is not a given. For this breed, the only caveat about breeding two ash colored dogs together is that over time breeding on the dilution will produce eye colors that are hazel, gray or blue. The CBR must have amber to yellow eyes.

Dyane

Color: I use the analogy of buying a car when people put color as their #1 priority... When buying a car color seems important, but after you've had the car a while you quickly forget the color and what is under the hood becomes far more important than the color. That pretty little red sports car becomes an eye sore and you regret the day you bought it when it is continually in the shop and is not dependable. That beautiful little ash colored pup, "silver" lab, etc. quickly become an anchor around your neck when they start having health problems, are dumber than a box of rocks, bite your child, could care less about retrieving, etc...

I've had a lot of different colors.....I never specifiy a color when looking for a dog. To me the most beautiful dog is the one who worships the ground I walk on and would cross the Pacific to make a retrieve.. Like they say, "A good horse can't be a bad color"...same applies to dogs.

Thank you, it is time to move on to more important issues re. Chesapeake Bay Retrievers.

Dyane,

As I know the eye color is to be yellow to amber for the cbr, but is there a physical reason why the eye color should not be the hazel to blue color.

Kevin