Bear's Chessie Kennels announces an outstanding litter due the end of March. Sire: Smoking Scout MH, OFA: CB-8885G24M-PI; CERF, PRA, DM available on request (Lind's Northcreek Magnum MH x Jackpine Cur-Sans Bob MH). Dam: Wildfowler's Mask of Dallas QAA, OFA: CB-7008E24F-PI; CERF, PRA, DM available on request (DC AFC Gambler's Dilwyn-Stacked Deck MH x Flatland's Hallie's Comet MH). Scout earned his MH at 2 years of age. Dallas is QAA in US and Canada. Should throw some deadgrass pups. $1,250. Now accepting deposits. George Marthinuss. 336-998-4420. Mocksville, NC. FOUR MALES BORN MARCH 29. LIGHT BROWN. ONE MALE STILL AVAILABLE.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: George Marthinuss,

OK George what is the status of the DM results?

Hey Billy there is a rumor going on that your getting a lab? Is this True?

quote:

Originally posted by B Smith:
OK George what is the status of the DM results?

Scout is a carrier. Dallas is at risk. Pups will have DM test so buyers will know status. Dallas is 9 years old and is still running in field trials.

I hate to say this but all the pups are either carriers or at risk. Kind of expensive for that possibility. Genetically you can't have a pup that is clear. If I am wrong than I deeply apologize.

All the pups will be either carriers or at risk. But take a look at the pedigrees of the sire and the dam. The dam is 9 years old (and still running in field trials) and this will be her last litter. To not carry on this line that has excelled in the field would be a shame. Every field trial and hunt test that I run Dallas and Scout is another statement to the world of Labs that chessies can play your game and do very well. I have attended several field trials where we are 2 of the 3 chessies competing and we are bringing home ribbons.

I too applaud you for this breeding. There are just too many good dogs who are carriers or at risk to eliminate themm all. Sure there are some nice dogs that are clear, but there are an awful lot of other clear dogs that have NOTHING to recommend them other than their DM status.

What happens when they find out what else in addition to two "A" genes, is a trigger for a dog getting DM? And we've lost all those good bloodlines of at risk or carrier dogs that have or lack the real trigger for DM? We would be excluding some really outstanding field dogs and allowing some real losers to be overused as sires that spread around some other genetic horror?

Until they even know what percentage of A/A dogs are affected, it would be foolish to avoid producing them. They may hold the real key to why DM occurs.

I would take one of those pups in a heartbeat, even one that tested A/A.

Im with Julie , i would take one and the risk over a pup who was clear with no Field Ped. Im wondering how to add the pup to my daughters wedding expence without my wife finding out .

Copia Creek your a dead man if your wife finds out. Your welcome to stay in Connecticut to hide out with your chessie pup. Or just send me the pup I'll return him in 16 years.

Its hard to beat a deal like that ,,,,,i just have to figure what will hurt the most ,,,,getting killed or not seeing my dog for 16 years

Sure is a nice breeding though .

George,
What a nice breeding.....Hope all of the pups arrive safely and Dallas has an easy delivery.
Good Luck and have fun with your litter!

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

quote:

I would take one of those pups in a heartbeat, even one that tested A/A.

I would agree with Julie, as long as I knew that none of the carriers, siblings or parents, did not display symptoms of DM. For me personally, I would want to know more about the carrier and the health of his pedigree. As there is more than just testing A/A that will result in a dog with DM.

Not to offend anyone, but I don't support breeding affected to DM carriers. I had a dog a long time ago that died of this horrible disease and I would not put another dog through it if I could help it. As a breeder, I won't breed to a dog that is affected. Now, clear to carrier, that's OK given our small gene pool. But ideally I will be striving to breed clear to clear.

Good luck with that!!!!!

In response to the comments about Dallas's DM results (At-Risk A/A). Being at risk does not mean that she is infected. She is 9 years old and still running and getting placements in field trials. In addition, per the University of Missouri College of Veterinary Medicine "The "A" (mutated) allele appears to be very common in some breeds. In these breeds, an overly aggressive breeding program to eliminate dogs testing A/A or A/N might be devastating to the breed as a whole because it would eliminate a large fraction of the high quality dogs that would otherwise contribute desirable qualities to the breed." To not carry on her line would be, in my opinion, a major loss to the chessie line and the field trial world. All her pups will be tested (DM) and all buyers will be informed of the results.

quote:

Originally posted by Chesaka:
Not to offend anyone, but I don't support breeding affected to DM carriers. I had a dog a long time ago that died of this horrible disease and I would not put another dog through it if I could help it. As a breeder, I won't breed to a dog that is affected. Now, clear to carrier, that's OK given our small gene pool. But ideally I will be striving to breed clear to clear.

Everyone makes different choices in breeding and these differences contribute to a diverse gene pool.
The problem with your view here is what I have been trying to get people to understand. First, this is a susceptibility test. It is NOt a definite test like the PRA test in that having this one gene means the dog will get DM or even pass it on. This test result is ONLY valid for ONE gene in a multiple gene disease. There was a considerable amount of dogs who tested 'at risk' who did not have the disease.
For the PRA, all the dogs tested as affected became affected. BIG DIFFERENCE. And the WHOLE idea of genetic tests even the PRA test is to KEEP Affected or At Risk dogs in the gene pool. More harm is done a breed by the ideas expressed above especially in a susceptibility test setting.

Breeding clear to clear ONLY will create MORE problems for this breed then it will solve.

George's decision is fine with me.

Dyane

THANK YOU Dyane! I would give anything to have my A/A girl Jib back. Her recent litter was sired by a clear dog for a breeding we'd talked about for a long time, very dear to my heart and the sire owner's heart since it was a line breeding on two of our favorite dogs. I'd likely not have gone forward with the breeding if the sire had tested A/A and there were known DM cases in his immediate ancestry. But we'd planned to do the breeding anyway even if he'd been a carrier, since he has no known cases of DM back for 4 generations. Happily, he tested clear.

Suppose there is some gene or code that A/A dogs have that prevents them from getting DM? And that after research is more complete, they find that only 10 percent of A/A dogs will get DM? If everyone made the decision to NEVER breed dogs that might produce A/A offspring, we would lose the code that non-affected A/A dogs have, plus some incredibly good bloodlines. Plus, what if a few years down the road, another genetic horror is discovered that's even worse than DM? And it's only found in dogs that tested N/N for the DM gene, but we have almost no A/N or A/A dogs left in our gene pool? What then? Given the rapid advancement of genetic science, this is a very real possibility.

Everyone has to make decisions on what they can live with and what they fear most when they pair up two dogs, and I think that's a good thing. But an across the board statement to never breed any dogs that might produce A/A offspring would be catastrophic to our gene pool.

I have no problem with a/a to a/n breedings. If I bought a puppy from such a breeding I would want to know AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, if there were dogs in the lines that were affected by DM (not only at risk).

Interestingly I find it odd that we have no problem in breeding/producing an a/a dog, who might live a long long life w/out symptoms of DM,

BUT

It is unethical to breed a dog with cataracts (say the triagular type) - because a puppy "MIGHT" also have cataracts.... even though some cataracts that chessies have may or will NOT lead to vision loss....AND the heredity of cataracts is still not 100% understood - no dna test....(like DM)....

just seems strange.

Juli

Just want to clarify...Obviously I would not want to breed a dog that had certain types of cataracts...My issue is that both females I have had that failed because of cataracts have a less than 10% chance of having vision loss. (as told to me by the vet)....Obviously some kinds of cataracts do lead to vision impairment.

Juli

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Juli Hermanns,

quote:

Originally posted by Juli:
I have no problem with a/a to a/n breedings (until more info is known). If I bought a puppy from such a breeding I would want to know AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, if there were dogs in the lines that were affected by DM (not only at risk).

Interestingly I find it odd that we have no problem in breeding/producing an a/a dog, who might live a long long life w/out symptoms of DM,

BUT

It is unethical to breed a dog with cataracts (say the triagular type) - because a puppy "MIGHT" also have cataracts.... even though some cataracts that chessies have may or will NOT lead to vision loss....AND the heredity of cataracts is still not 100% understood - no dna test....(like DM)....

just seems strange.

Juli

Just want to clarify...Obviously I would not want to breed a dog that had certain types of cataracts...My issue is that both females I have had that failed because of cataracts have a less than 10% chance of having vision loss. (as told to me by the vet)....Obviously some kinds of cataracts do lead to vision impairment.

Juli

They were born Sunday, March 29. Four beautiful males. Future MH or FC or AFC's.