I've been training Oz the Amish way. Lately I've been working on water cheats, and have come to the conclusion that the Amish must have been the first to invent the running shoe.

Here's my question:: When a dog has cheated, and you've got them there on the bank, what method do you use to get them back in the water? When I've got help they keep him in, but when I'm the closest, I usually end up stopping the dog on the bank.

So far I have tossed him back in, made him sit, and then returned to my original position. I have also removed the dummy from his mouth and made him retrieve from the water, while I moved my position down the bank. When I get to him, I take him back to the position where he exited the water, and administer the correction there.

I've got some help on this, I'm more interested in the various approaches, and the motivation behind them, that some of you might be using.

I have run some drills on parallel marks where I can get to him before he leaves the water.

--Todd, very leg sore and winded

"He swears he's going to jump in on me as soon as the water temp gets above 33." Oz

Todd;

Have you done swim-by? This will help your problem immensely. You first teach it on the T or TT, stopping and casting the dog to a pile when it is on the way back. In other words, even when the dog already has the retrieve, it must understand that it still has to obey casts. Do this on land (called a "run-by"). Then you do this on water, basically teaching the T on water and then doing swim-by after he has the T down pat.

After this is mastered, then if he beaches too soon, simply stop and cast into the water.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa, that was FAST!

No, I haven't done the swim by. I'm not really sure how to do it, and I don't feel confident enough with his T work to move it into the water where corrections are more difficult. There will be opportunities for me later this summer to work with an experienced trainer on this.

As far as a behavioral analysis goes, am I better off going with negative reinforcement (you cheat you don't get the retrieve (I know this isn't the traditional meaning of negative reinforcement)) or positive reinforcement (you cheat, you get disciplined). I would also note that some of cheating problems happen when Oz is returning, particularly if he has had a mark close to shore, even if he didn't cheat on the way out.

Todd

Todd,
Without the help of a "Hazer" aka "Boogeyman" I would avoid cheating situations all together until you can reliably "Whistle sit" him "Whistle in" and "Cast" from where the cheat started. From then on I would keep the line/him centered on the widest shore of the water and begin by throwing marks square gradually angling them in toward the shore (w. dawg still centered). When he is "honest" and not beaching or even skimming the bank back to you I would start to shift the line over until it's parallel with the shore. At any point he get's out and tries to come back via land meet him/take him back "No/Stick/No" (instant "Hot Spot" Amish meets Dobbs ) Sit him and throw the mark square back in and return to the line. Cast him and call in. So in a nutshell until you can use attrition methods/handling avoid having to correct.
jmho,
Peake

[This message was edited by Dave B on Wed March 26 2003 at 10:26 PM.]