Been following a thread on a local duck hunting site in the gun dog forum.

Lot of hunt test folks hang out in and they have been discussing Definitive Casting. It is out of Evan Grahms program and I have seen it done by several folks and not sure what I think about it.

First impulse is not so much, but thought I would see if anyone here has used it and if so what your thoughts are on it.

Marty

Marty,
Please define the term. I might be doing it without knowing it!

Tim

This picture show's the drill. A mark is thrown and the dog sent on for the mark. On the way he is stopped at the first spot and cast to a pile. Returns with bumper and then sent to pick up mark. Then repeated with mark thrown and dog sent on mark stopped and next spot and cast to pile then after delivery sent and allowed to pick up mark. You do this until you have stopped the dog 4 or 5 times and cast away from a mark.

This is the 1st of a 6 part drill system that Evan Grahm has advocated when teaching dog's Definitive casting.

As I said above not sure if I agree with it. Don't quite see the benefit. His program is very drill based and sometimes I do not see the realationship to real time experience for the dog. By this I mean I am not sure if the drill transfers the lesson to the field better than real time experience.

Marty

No I don't do this.
Philosophically I don't like the idea of repeatedly stopping a young dog especially on a mark.
I think I accomplish the same principle by stopping and casting on my 3 and 5 legged yard drills since when I have the dog stopped I will throw a bumper to one spot and cast to another. In this drill I also try to line these legs
more than stopping in a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio to avoid the dog anticipating being stopped (popping).

JMO
Tim

Tim

My thoughts are pretty much like yours, don't like to handle on a mark at all if possible.

I do several lining drills with casting in as well and have had a hard time seeing the benefit. Just thought I would see what others thoughts were and if anyone used it what they thought the benefits would be.

Marty

Kent
There are several more phases of Definitive Casting that he advocates. His goal is I believe to establish control in casting while keeping attitude up during the drill. Not saying it is wrong just different, he uses this drill after transition to solidify casting.

I see it as an extension of known skills that need to be put into effect in the field. By the time I would have a dog to this level of training I would rather be spending time building confidence on blinds much like the Pic's Billy posted.

Reason I posted here was to get others thoughts on this. I mean if you are out of transition why stay there or go back to a drill like this.

Marty

There is alot of Evans Stuff that I like.....especially his explanation of swim by which I think is very well done!

But with yah on this one Marty! Not sure where this transfers to the field or what skill you are teaching? Could you not as easily just place guners,whites or whatever in the field or intro them to patterns or sight blinds with the same result except let them pick up the mark?

Not clear on this at all and not sure I would ue it for anything!

Paul

Putting guns in your pattern field, picking up marks and running infront of behind or bye are all part of the end of Transition. That is were I teach the same lesson's that I think you get from this.

Marty

Now we talking Key Relationship Drills.
This I do use both early and through out training with varying degrees of difficulty.

Tim

Good stuff guys!