How about some ideas on some anti-popping drills.

During T drills and some other lining and back cast drills. Moose is anticpating me hitting the whistle. He will run like the wind and as soon as he gets to the cross of the T he starts to slow down, anticipating a whistle sit. If he does I will not stop him but let him continue to line out to the top of the T (I keep extra birds or dummies there). If on the next run he runs full steam I will let him continue on and then the next run I will stop him at the T. Just trying to keep him guessing.

On occassion when he pops I will whistle sit and back cast to continue the line.

We try to do lining drills twice or three times as much during the week as we do casting drills. I figure if he will take a good line, casts are only to get him in the ball park..

I do not use an e-collar..

Any suggestions of fun drills. I really like walking baseball and he doesn't get bored with it, but he won't pop on it either.

Jeff

John Gun, a pretty well known field trialer uses bleach bottles on a stick for a variety of work. One use is to place a marker on the blind the dog can readily see. The way I see it is that the dog reacts to visual cues about the same as running pattern blinds. They are confidence builders. He also uses them on marks. The throw is at the bleach bottle. This helps teach the line to the fall and gives the dog an exact understanding of what is expected.

I have used road cones for early blind work then transitioned to smaller cones then just survey tape. Same idea.

We had some popping dogs in our group and the combination of using visual blind markers and banty roosters pretty much eliminated the problems and made doing the work exciting to the dog.

thanks, we use large (goose canvas by hallmark) for the initial line training, roads, fences and marked areas as well.

It isn't the excitement or lack thereof that makes him pop, it is the dang anticipation. He so smart and anxious to please he just anticpates the next order of business. It is just a matter of keeping him on his toes.

I switch off and on from dummies to birds or combination to keep the excitment up too.

Thanks

Jeff

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jeff Faycosh,

quote:

Originally posted by MooseMT:
thanks, we use large (goose canvas by hallmark) for the initial line training, roads, fences and marked areas as well.

It isn't the excitement or lack thereof that makes him pop, it is the dang anticipation. He so smart and anxious to please he just anticpates the next order of business. It is just a matter of keeping him on his toes.

I switch off and on from dummies to birds or combination to keep the excitment up too.

Thanks

Jeff

Have you ever used live banty's when running blinds? just tie their feet so they can flap around real good when the dog gets there....changes the dogs whole outlook on running blinds....Going to put Kaie back on the program with them soon. Have my flight pen and chicken house all done, getting 50 pigeons on Tuesday and I am looking for banty's on the internet.

I haven't tried Banty chickens, but it make sense. I might try it using pigeons first but I don't doubt it works well. Right now I am having 8 to 10 new pigeons every couple weeks. So I need to trim the population in the pigeon coop anyway.

Thanks

Jeff

Lisa

Thanks. Usually on the pop he slows like he is going to stop and looks over his shoulder, then a hold command and he takes off. If he totally stops and turns like he wants to take a side cast, I have whistle sat him then a back command (the reason being I don't give casts or backs on the move, bad habit to get started in my opinion and encourages a sloppy whistle sit and casts).

On a force to pile if he is running a line and stops, I don't say anything but immediately start walking to him, he hates me leaving the line. He will stop and get all drooping eared and head down. (the anticipation of a correction while I walk to him seems to be the cure). I line him up again and I merely put my fingers close to his ear give a hold command and send him. That results 98% of the time a lightening bolt dash to the pile, dummy or whatever. No additional force required on him. On the very rare occasion that this force doesn't work a slight ear pinch will get him on track.

Also I only give the command once, if I am sure he heard it, I immediately reinforce it. I never give a verbal command more than once without a consequence. That in my opinion begins a bad habit of nagging that they will quickly ignore.

So if your dog does stop and turn on you, do you give your back command then? If they ignore your back I would assume you follow up with some force to pile back drills? correct?

Jeff

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jeff Faycosh,

Try making your TT a lining drill.

If may take a few days. Take 10 white bumpers throw to all 5 positions of the TT and line to each position.
Back up a little on day 2 and repeat. Day 3 repeat throwing all orange bumpers. Day 4 repeat stopping him ONCE and lining the other 9.

Then remember to only stop and cast 1-2 times session. It will take a little longer but IMHO it might help avoid anticipation.

Tim

Tim

Thanks, I will give that a try.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Van Loo:
....a T drill in the first place is to force a dog to anticipate (pop) and then teach the dog that popping is not acceptable.

The T is a Rex Carr drill, designed specifically for collar use, and specifically to force a dog through popping.

Really, applying a collar-based basics program could create problems for you, since you are not using the collar. Have you tried Training Retrievers to Handle by D. L Walters (not Richard Wolters)? It gives a pretty solid non-collar training basics set of drills that is considerably different from the Rex Carr collar-based program.

Lisa

IMHO this brings to light a very common problem. Many of today's trainers take e-collar training for granted. T work, FTP, direct/indirect pressure... are all techniques that evolved AFTER and as a result of the e-collar.
Prior to e- collars dogs were still taught to handle, stop on a whistle and run blinds but with different drills and techniques. You cann't plop a dog into a collar dependent task with no means of pushing the him/her through it.

Tim

Tim and Lisa

Thanks for your insight. I have used the drills from DL Walters and others. Most of my training routine has been modified in one or another to fit my needs at the time.

At your comments, my curiosity is peaked. I will dig out my old DL Walters book and review it.

I believe my terminology is a bit askew, which make diagnosing training a little tough on-line.

Thanks

Jeff

Lisa

I am pretty sure it is a terminology issue. Thanks for the great suggestion on the Walters book. It has been too many years since I last reviewed it.

Jeff