This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kent Stokesberry,

If you haven't done swim-by and decheating exercises don't do these types of retrieves until you have.

If you have then: stop and give an "over" in the water(ie swim-by) if dog refuses don't correct in water when he hits land stop, correct, cast back to water,the good safe place.

JMO

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by timothy carrion:
If you haven't done swim-by and decheating exercises don't do these types of retrieves until you have.

If you have then: stop and give an "over" in the water(ie swim-by) if dog refuses don't correct in water when he hits land stop, correct, cast back to water,the good safe place.

JMO

Tim

Tim if your dog cheats the bank should you call the dog back in and resend the dog and then handle if he tries to cheat again? Or do you handle on the first time?

quote:

Originally posted by jtowne:
.... if your dog cheats the bank should you call the dog back in and resend the dog and then handle if he tries to cheat again? Or do you handle on the first time?

It varies depending upon dog and situation.
On an initial line cheat of water entry, with an inexperienced dog, I will usually recall,decrease the degree of cheat potential re-throw and resend.. In giving into a factor in route I will handle, correct if beaches and only recall if it turns into one of those "battles of will".

Tim

My friend, your question has been answered in Tim's post.

FC/AFC's will cheat sooner or later.

Experienced dogs can recover from a bad initial line. Young dogs will blow up!


When the dog gets older the handler cuts the dog more slack. probably because it hasn't affected the dogs ability to mark the chickens.

Well, you always have to ask yourself " what do I hope to get out of this"?

Set up tough factors that force your dog to make a decision! This will create teaching situations, not necessarily correction situations.

You must learn how to read your dog!!!!!!!

Did he not remember where the bird fell?
Did he stop fighting the terrain changes and give up?

Or is he working hard, but just got a little lost?

All valid questions!

Each situation will call for a different response.

This is where having the information and knowing what to do with it, make the difference.

Your timing has to be exact or you risk losing the message.


Create solid, clear marking setups.
Introduce concepts slowly and thouroughly.

Your dog should be underwhelmed we he is at the line ready to compete, not overwhelmed.

Confidence and comfort breeds better marking!

Go to a trial and watch the veteran dogs.
The body language of the dogs succeeding is differnt than the dogs failing.

It's a big differnce! You can sometimes pick the winners from the line!!!!!!!

Just my opinions!

Happy trails!!

To much de-cheating and you have a dog that always runs fat and returns fat. Banana lines rarely win trials.

Back to squeezing the water balloon. PG

quote:

Originally posted by timothy carrion:

quote:

Originally posted by jtowne:
.... if your dog cheats the bank should you call the dog back in and resend the dog and then handle if he tries to cheat again? Or do you handle on the first time?

It varies depending upon dog and situation.
On an initial line cheat of water entry, with an inexperienced dog, I will usually recall,decrease the degree of cheat potential re-throw and resend.. In giving into a factor in route I will handle, correct if beaches and only recall if it turns into one of those "battles of will".

Tim

Tim this question was for Thor. I hate that he runs the bank but I let him do it in hunting so I know it is my fault too. He will take a great line and he is so fast at the last second he will dart the bank and know exactly where the bird is. But I want to straighten that out.

I started taking my time more before I send him on the mark and when he is lined up where I want him I say "good right there". He will take a great line. But I also use that for his que on the blind before I say "back". In the long run will that confuse him? thinking he is running a blind instead of a mark?


I was just wondering how far back should I go. Do I go back to cheating singles and handle him right when he is off the line I want. Or do I go back to swim-by?

Nick,
Go back as far as it takes to establish the proper water entry and exit. Water tune-up/wagon wheel drills,swim-by, shoreline school blinds, cheating singles with handling and correction, 2-3 down the shore marks as singles and multiples(all visible)..... Before working him you need to establish your standard/boundaries of where he MUST enter and is allowed to exit.
Adopt the mindset that it is HOW he gets there not if.

Tim

I sometimes use chairs to help in teaching dog not to cheat.

Moscowitz,

When I send gauge out for a retriever he keeps a straight line. But on his way back to me, he tends to return almost in a banana shape back to me. I wish I was more computer savy I would give you a drawing of it. Would short work with a barrior like your chairs help this? And if not, do you have any suggestions?

Josh

I use two chairs. I do not make a corridor. I set one on the right and one on the left but one is further up than the other. I do it in a small field and short blind. At first I say NO then recall. Usually doesn't take long to get the idea. Then I put a chair near the waters edge do along angle in and use the chair to push them in. I hope that this is understandable. But I would follow whatever Tim says he is extremely knowledgable and that's who I ask for advice when I have problems. And I have had many problems this year from breaking to no goes. So I am having my own problems. And I think Tim will agree, "it never ends."

quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Van Loo:

quote:

Originally posted by CBRKAIE:
To much de-cheating and you have a dog that always runs fat and returns fat. Banana lines rarely win trials.

Not true. It evens out. Decheating happens during transition, and is a means of teaching dogs how to do angles, multiple re-entries, and the like. They are always fat coming out of this, but as they gain confidence in their water work, they do better. The main purpose is to teach dogs what the correction means, so that they will understand it when they encounter it in training.

As far as banana lines, one of the top winning dogs (yellow lab) always had banana lines. I judged him in derby, and he had them then, and still has them today. Didn't affect his marking one iota, and still doesn't today. Good judges judge the mark, not the line. Where bananas get you in trouble is if the dog gets lost, or it leads them into temptation. Otherwise, they are of no consequence.

Lisa

And running field trials there is never any temptations?

quote:

Originally posted by Moscowitz:
I use two chairs. I do not make a corridor. I set one on the right and one on the left but one is further up than the other. I do it in a small field and short blind. At first I say NO then recall. Usually doesn't take long to get the idea. Then I put a chair near the waters edge do along angle in and use the chair to push them in. I hope that this is understandable. But I would follow whatever Tim says he is extremely knowledgable and that's who I ask for advice when I have problems. And I have had many problems this year from breaking to no goes. So I am having my own problems. And I think Tim will agree, "it never ends."

Funny how it works. As I posted this spring, had the same issues. In 2008 I had a breaking dog, spring 09 I got my first nasty no-go...dog training is like holding a water balloon. Squeeze to soft and nothing happens squeeze to hard and it all ends up on one end un-balanced.....