What do you all think of e collars? I have purchased one and after i keep reading what people think of them i feel ashamed to have bought it. I didnt plan on using it for anyhting other than during retrieves when Honey sees ANYthing in the water now she swims after it and will not come back for anything a ball, treats, fresh meat, the times i have gone in the water with her she clawed my legs up real bad. i needs to get her attention because the water we swim in is connected to a waterstrip for float planes. Give me some opinions. Please ....

An e-collar is a teaching tool not a weapon. If you start with very basic obedience as you introduce electronic training you will gradually teach the dog that you are in control and obedience is how the dog AVOIDS correction.
E training more than traditional does require more consistency by the trainer in maintaining a high standard

If you have never used an e-collar try to find someone local with some experience. Anybody can push a button but doesn't mean you are training.

Tim

If the dog has no obidience training, and to your own acount, the dog does not. The e collar is useless in your situation. E collar is a training tool used after obidence or in conjunction with.

Your just gonna get mad at the dog for not coming when you call em and zap em to see what will happen any way! Take a different approach and get some help from an expert.

Megan,
After many years of saying I didn't need one, nor did I think its was required, I purchased a collar when I got Scout. While as a novice user I have certainly applied E pressure at the wrong time, or for the wrong reasoning, all in all IMHO it was a great decision. Given you follow a proven program, work when possible with a experienced trainer, avoid use as a method to express anger, they are very useful. One's ability to express a correction at the moment of infraction makes understanding the "why" the correction was given more clear (again IMHO) to the dog.
Additionally today's collars can be turn down to such a light level, its not like you're "frying" the dog when you do apply pressure. To me they are certainly nothing to be ashamed of, and no different than a heeling stick or other tool you could use for corrections.

Tim I

Tim has a good point however the dog must first learn how to escape from the pressure of the collar. Just because the dog gets zapped doing something you dont want, does not mean the dog understands that. A command the dog is familiar with would have to be dishonored by the dog first. A command that dog knows so well that the collar should not have to be used.

Try this!! When you are in the field, put a lead on that dog and when the dog hits the end of the lead with a choke chain, yank it a little and say HERE! Every day for a month!! Change up on the length of the lead at times so the dog doesnt get predictable! Lead, choke chain, here!! If that is your only problem this should solve it. It may take work but the e collar can really wreck things for ya if you didnt already know what i just mentioned to you.

Everyone is giving you good advice, and Joe's suggestion is excellent, BUT make sure when the dog comes in to you to PRAISE it for doing what you asked for.

Your dog's problem is that he has failed to understand that the "come" command is unequivocal whether on land or in water and you need to teach him this. Don't let the dog into the water unless he's on a long line until you have his recall down pat.

This is one of the biggest mistakes of a novice trainer, i.e. failure to teach a proper recall, and the hardest to fix because once the dog has learned they don't have to come and you can't make them come, they will do what they want. But with a lot of work and a lot of praise when they do come in you can fix it. Basically they have to learn that when they come to you, you are the greatest person on this earth.

And until you collar condition them properly, using the e-collar to correct may just send them to China rather than back to you because they don't understand what the correction with the collar means!!

Kathy Miller

AH Gauge, its pretty obvious the dog dont know sit, stay, here! If the dog did know those commands, this young lady would not have posted the question as to why she has to go into the water to get her dog! Read my post above! That is how you get the dog to do what you want!Without the e collar! There aint no other way! At least that i know of. But, what do i know!!

I don't know where you got your training ideas but if it works fine with me! In my world here means here MF!! Land or water makes no difference to me! If you cant get your dog to come to a simple HERE! You will regret feeding that dog for the rest of its life.

I use a simple choke chain, No pinch collar!! In time and most of the experts know. The simple sound of the chain getting pulled tells the dog what is coming and no physical reenforcement on the choker is needed!!

Please dont confuse this young lady with a bunch of babble. She has a simple question and all she needs is a simple answer. Refinement can come later!

quote:

Originally posted by Kathy Miller:
This is one of the biggest mistakes of a novice trainer, i.e. failure to teach a proper recall, and the hardest to fix because once the dog has learned they don't have to come and you can't make them come, they will do what they want. But with a lot of work and a lot of praise when they do come in you can fix it. Basically they have to learn that when they come to you, you are the greatest person on this earth.


Kathy Miller

very true - Now that Honey knows she can give you the finger, you will be battling this for yrs to come....It is the nature of the beast..

Are you going to be around the 13,14 of this month? there is a hunt test in North Pole that I will be at. I would be happy to give you some pointers in person.

Juli

Nice gesture Juli!

Megan, if someone close by that knows can help you, get the help!! I wouldnt put this problem off for to long.

Gauge, books are great for reading!! I never read a book that solved all my problems though! A book is just someone elses opionion! After reading all those books even you still had to go have your dog trained!!

I may not log in much but i do read the posts!!

Its important not to put to much into training a dog. Its not rocket science. Now i have never had my dogs in any offical trial but i know one thing i can take my dog out and it will do ANYTHING i tell it to. My buddies and i have dropped Mallards all over the dang slough and our dogs get everyone of those suckers!! best wishes!

quote:

Everyone has their way of training. When I started formal obedience, I did not put a choke chain on the dog then yank it and say here. I put a prong on with a 20' lead, then I gave the here command and allowed him the time to respond on his own. If he didn't respond, I gave a long distance correction followed by the command again. After a week like that I never had an issue again with the here command.

Joe, with all due respect, there are much newer methods of training that are more effective in the long run because the dog is taught by positive reenforcement to work for the owner because he wants to and not because he's been intimated into submission.

Also, yanking on a choke chain can do trachea damage to a dog that could be permanent, as I've done it many years ago when that was the way of training. A small link prong collar elicits a much better response, but does not hurt the dog and when followed by lots of praise and perhaps even a treat, most self respecting dogs, including chessies will learn quickly to come to their handler because it means good things happen.

When they are working in the field they also quickly learn that to deliver the bird to hand mmeans they may get to get another and that is the ultimate reward.

Meghan, you should take Juli up on her offer as she's been working very hard with her dogs and can give you a lot of good ideas and assistance.

Kathy Miller
Sandy Oak Chesapeakes

I have never!! Hurt my dog with a choker! Never had to pull that hard to get their attention. A simple tug is all it takes. Besides if you say HERE! and the dog keeps going he is going to apply his own pressure. NO? Hurting the dog will only make thing worse in my opionion. I am only talking about time and repetition. IT TAKES A WHOLE LOT OF WORK AND ENDLESS HOURS OF TRAINING. As most of you know. Anyway, i never hurt my dogs.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe P:

Gauge, books are great for reading!! I never read a book that solved all my problems though! A book is just someone elses opionion! After reading all those books even you still had to go have your dog trained!!

I may not log in much but i do read the posts!!

Its important not to put to much into training a dog. Its not rocket science. Now i have never had my dogs in any offical trial but i know one thing i can take my dog out and it will do ANYTHING i tell it to. My buddies and i have dropped Mallards all over the dang slough and our dogs get everyone of those suckers!! best wishes!

Joe,

I am done with this thread, because the last thing I want to do is argue over who knows what! LOL!! But if you would have read the posts I made previously about my dog, you would realize that I sent my dog off to be FF'ed. I did this mainly because I got the chance to be involved in the process and learn from it. The more knowledge I can absorb the better off my dog will be! I had already gone through obedience. I had already finished 2 passes on the started retriever title. And I have already hunted over my dog, with no issues.

Regardless, I am sure you have a great dog, and I am glad he is everything you want him to be! Enjoy him

Josh

Muddy Twelve Gauge

I ff my own dogs!! Thats great you got those title things to! Mags is 8 years old or so and has retreived over 1800 waterowl!! Have a nice day Gauge.

quote:

Yes I get very nervous at hunt tests and it runs right down the leash .....but my dogs never forget what they have been taught. There is a difference.

Mine don't either! Each to his own!

Kathy Miller
Sandy Oak Chesapeakes
Ch. Baron’s Sandy Bay CD WD (Sandy Oak Foundation Bitch)
Ch. Sandy’s Hi-Ho Shooting Star UD JH WDX CGC ROM
Am* & BIS/BBE Int* Ch. Sandy Oak’s Rainbow Rider UD JH NA NAJ WD CGC ROMQ (“Rusty”)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Sam Hill CDX WDQ
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Racing Reverly CDX JH OA NAJ NAC WD CGC ROM (co-owned w/Margine Webb; Ch. finished by Kathy)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Got The Spirit CD JH WD CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Bit O’Starlite CD RN WD CGC (“Shaina”)
Ch. Sandy Oak Starlite Wishes CD RN TT CGC (“Halley”)
Ch. Graphic Great Scott CD RA CGC (Standard Poodle)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Russia CD WD (co-owned with Theda Mobley; Ch. finished by Kathy)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Shannon CD WD (2 legs/JH) (“Brandy”) (co-owned with Jim Shine)
Ch. Sandy Oak Rainbow’s Reflection CD CGC (“Magic”)
Ch. Sandy Oak Elvis JH (Ch. finished by Kathy; owned Eric & Val Negler)
Ch. Sandy Oak From Russia W’Love WD CGC (“Reesie”)
Ch* Sandy Oak Jessica Lane TT CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak Starlite Starbrite CGC (“Sara”)
Ch. SandyOak Webfoot Hearts Afire CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak Aims For The Stars CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak Wish Upon A Star CGC (“Annie”)
Ch. SandyOak Thunderstruck (“Baron”) (co-owned with Catherine Collins)
Sandy Oak Bit O’Honey Tess JH WDX CGC (Marjor/Ptd.)
Sandy Oak’s Sirius Sass CD WD CGC (Ptd.)
Sandy Oak’s Dayshine Shannon CD WD (Major Ptd.)
Ima Sandy Too CD (“Bumper”)
Chesany’s Rapid Cedar CD
Sandy Oak Touch O’Honey Jazz RN CGC (Ptd.)
Sandy Oak’s Chaotic Kelsi WD CGC (Major/Ptd.)
Sandy Oak Starlite Express WD CGC (Ptd.) (“Shasta”)
Chesany’s Sandy Hot Streak WD
Sandy Oak Taken By Storm WD
Sandy Oak’s Ring Of Fire (“Lacey”)

Wow Kathy

quote:

Ch. Baron’s Sandy Bay CD WD (Sandy Oak Foundation Bitch)
Ch. Sandy’s Hi-Ho Shooting Star UD JH WDX CGC ROM
Am* & BIS/BBE Int* Ch. Sandy Oak’s Rainbow Rider UD JH NA NAJ WD CGC ROMQ (“Rusty”)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Sam Hill CDX WDQ
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Racing Reverly CDX JH OA NAJ NAC WD CGC ROM (co-owned w/Margine Webb; Ch. finished by Kathy)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Got The Spirit CD JH WD CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Bit O’Starlite CD RN WD CGC (“Shaina”)
Ch. Sandy Oak Starlite Wishes CD RN TT CGC (“Halley”)
Ch. Graphic Great Scott CD RA CGC (Standard Poodle)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Russia CD WD (co-owned with Theda Mobley; Ch. finished by Kathy)
Ch. Sandy Oak’s Shannon CD WD (2 legs/JH) (“Brandy”) (co-owned with Jim Shine)
Ch. Sandy Oak Rainbow’s Reflection CD CGC (“Magic”)
Ch. Sandy Oak Elvis JH (Ch. finished by Kathy; owned Eric & Val Negler)
Ch. Sandy Oak From Russia W’Love WD CGC (“Reesie”)
Ch* Sandy Oak Jessica Lane TT CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak Starlite Starbrite CGC (“Sara”)
Ch. SandyOak Webfoot Hearts Afire CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak Aims For The Stars CGC
Ch. Sandy Oak Wish Upon A Star CGC (“Annie”)
Ch. SandyOak Thunderstruck (“Baron”) (co-owned with Catherine Collins)
Sandy Oak Bit O’Honey Tess JH WDX CGC (Marjor/Ptd.)
Sandy Oak’s Sirius Sass CD WD CGC (Ptd.)
Sandy Oak’s Dayshine Shannon CD WD (Major Ptd.)
Ima Sandy Too CD (“Bumper”)
Chesany’s Rapid Cedar CD
Sandy Oak Touch O’Honey Jazz RN CGC (Ptd.)
Sandy Oak’s Chaotic Kelsi WD CGC (Major/Ptd.)
Sandy Oak Starlite Express WD CGC (Ptd.) (“Shasta”)
Chesany’s Sandy Hot Streak WD
Sandy Oak Taken By Storm WD
Sandy Oak’s Ring Of Fire (“Lacey”)

All Those Dogs - you are getting "old"
Chelsea

quote:

Definately breeding a lot of dogs !

Who said anything about breeding them all! Many were but some weren't and this is over a 35 year period. Bottom line is that these dogs were all titled and just more than Champions and it was done by me!!

Kathy

quote:

Originally posted by Joe P:
its pretty obvious the dog dont know sit, stay, here! If the dog did know those commands, this young lady would not have posted the question as to why she has to go into the water to get her dog!

oh brother.....dogs can know a command and disobey it....besides Joe, have you seen the dog in person????? Given what you have written about your own dog(s), you must have some obedience trial champs at your house... .


I think it is more likely that Megan needs help in re-inforcing the command in high excitement situations....

Juli