How many of you work on retired guns? What if any specific drills do you use to expose the dog to the concept.
Note here I am not referring to a hidden gun (dog never sees the bird boy, or gun station), but a Bird boy that was plainly visible, but then moves to a place the dog can not see them, while to dog was in route to a different mark or blind retrieve.

Thanks Tim

Like most marking concepts it starts with singles. The thrower has a chair and a dark/camo umbrella. Shoot-throw-sit-open umbrella then you send the dog.
As you progress to multiples you want as little movement of the retired thrower as possible. You want them immediately available if the dog doesn't show evidence of remembering the thrower reappears until the dog "keys in" retires again and the dog is sent.
IMHO drills don't make dogs better with retired guns. Retiring a gun is about memory and confidence. Your ability to efficiently take delivery and get your focused is important.

Tim

Great advice from Tim!

Start as a single, have the gunner retire when the dog is half way to the bird.

Have the mark thrown in short grass so the dog will see it and not be sucked away from the mark by the gunners movement.

Progress into having the gunner retire in plane view before the dog is sent.

When that is solid add multiple marks to test memory. So 1st thrown, 2nd mark thrown.

Dog is sent for 2nd bird down. On the dogs way back from the go bird have the gun retire.


Keep in mind that your standard on a visible gun is tighter than on a retired Gun.

The visible gun gives the dog a visual reference point of what to do. ( Don't back side the gun). A good mark is any line the comes under the ark of the throw!

For training purposes, and teaching the dog how to deal with the factors present, have the guns visible 90% of the times.

When your dog is clear and solid on how to handle side hills, wind , and terrain that make it hard to hold his line, you can add concepts and multiple retired guns.

I would create a cue to use when the dog is focused on the retired guns.

You don't want to use the word mark, knowing he won't have a gun to focus on when he is about to retrieve that particular Bird. I use the word GOOD to reinforce that he is looking where I want him to.

So add these tips with Tim's and be patient!
When you dog starts to get it, you will know!

Good luck,

I'm sure some other folks may add to this.

take care,

Malcolm

Thanks Gents!
My training partner & I came to a similar conclusion (better use singles) and ran some yesterday, as we had 2 guys helping out as bird boys. We set them both behind a hill, about 50 yards in front of us, spread East/West a bit. We'd call "Guns up", one BB would walk out, toss a single mark on our side of the hill, wait 3 seconds, retire behind the hill, wait a couple more seconds, send the dog. Both dogs got 3 from each BB, moving line/BB a way each mark.

Both dogs did well enough, and hit all marks. I will say both dogs, 1 time after picking up the bumper, ran to the top of the hill and just had to look for the BBs. You could see their heads, "Yup there they are", and then came back. Neither of us applied any pressure, just a 2nd come in. Not sure if that was the right thing to do.

We'll repeat similar concepts in future sessions, and introduce other factors as they improve.

Thanks again,
Tim

That's a good reaction!
We have some very intelligent dogs!

When they figure out the nature of the mark and become comfortable with it, continue to be patient.

The next step is understanding the importance of taking the proper line to the bird.

In training send them where the mark fell, not where the gunner was standing.

In a trial you will send them if at all possible from the down wind side of the mark on retired guns.

That could be a little outside of the fall area, or under the ark of the fall area.

The dogs trust in you and his lining skills are a very important in digging out theses birds.

Sounds like you're on the right path already.

Good luck and remember to enjoy the time with your dog!

Malcolm