this is a 130 yd blind, sharp downhill, angling into the water with a re-entry...

what level blind do you think this is? A good master level blind, or ?

If my eyes are correct you are on a slop this blind is an all age blind. Boy I would not heel on my left. My young dog would fall down immediately. I would heel on right and even then with the brush big problems getting him in the water at the right entry to complete blind. I find the first part of this blind very difficult. Just my opinion

Hi Juli......

What a neat blind! Well in our neck of the woods, a good master blind......maybe a qualifying blind - but more than likely would be longer than that for the 'q' dogs.

Norene & Dom
Nordom Chesapeakes

IMHO it is a decent Qual. blind. It will not take much time to run and i think the judges would get some answers. I don't think many dogs will line it for the following reasons:
- most dogs will go straight down the bank on entry.
-once in the water if you need to cast right it appears the dog will be in running water and may want to disappear too far right, forcing you cast left towards open water
- if you are still in sight when you get to point you are going to need another left towards open water.

If you don't get those "key"casts to the left you probably won't see water marks.

JMO

Tim

Big master blind and potentially trick qualifying blind!

thanks for everyone's input...My own, rather inexperienced opinion, was a solid master or Q blind..

Tim, you are correct, the beginning of the blind is running water, until you get over the little clump of branches about 35 yds into the water...then it goes into swimming water for the remaining length of the blind..If you wanted to make it more challenging, you could move the line to the left, slicing the point and angle across a road on the far shore...It would then be about 160 yds....

I taught Hitch this blind this morning, starting at the point and running it as a short cold blind. When he returned I had him sit on the point and return to me at the top of the hill....We ran it again and he took the line down the hill very well all the way to the point, he lost a little momentum there, because this is the first time he has had a re-entry blind and I think he was looking for a bumper up on shore, so I gave a 'back' command as he exited the water, as reassurance to him that he needed to keep on going...He lined the rest of the blind from there (the light went on)....repeated from the hill and he lined it w/out needing any encouragement....

It was a fun blind, I wish I had another place to repeat a similar concept, but I don't...LOL..In fact this pond is nearly dry throughout most of the year, until about the end of July, at which it becomes a combination of running and swimming water....


Juli

Hey Julie.....that little pond looks like you could set up numerous blinds from different entry points!

it is a really nice pond from about mid July till freeze-up...It is bone dry in the spring, and starting about June it begins to SLOWLY take on water....There are a couple of other places where I can do re-entries, but not with the technical aspect this blind has...I could try running it backwards, but I honestly think Hitch would line it, if I did that...he always remembers where I put bumpers down when we are training. LOL

Juli

tomorrow I am going to have a gunner standing on the point and run the blind..then have a mark thrown from up on the point and out into open water...so that he runs the mark, staying in water, and then the blind, getting out and back in...thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by Juli Hermanns:
....There are a couple of other places where I can do re-entries, but not with the technical aspect this blind has...I could try running it backwards, but I honestly think Hitch would line it, if I did that...he always remembers where I put bumpers down when we are training. LOL

Juli

Why not backwards? IMHO there is more training potential in running from the opposite shore. Your initial blind is good for testing for the same reasons I don't like it for training it encourages a poor initial line. Even if a second blind was added swimming past the point to the far cove there is little chance for 2 separate water entries.

JMO
Tim

Juli,
Do you have to run from this exact spot or can you move right at all.....and still view the end of the pond from this opening.... Just wondering outloud! LOL

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

Thank you Rick for your advice. I will certainly use it in the future.. I am curious though, if you do not teach a dog to negotiate obstacles during training, how can you get them or expect them to do so in a test situation?

The initial line is not as hard as one might think, or maybe Hitch is just better at negotiating brush...however, the 'wall' of brush to the right more or less encouraged him to stay left, in the water. And since it was a taught blind, he negotiated the brush quite readily....probably would not have done so well had it been an out and out cold blind....

Today I first ran the blind with the gunner in position, and then with a mark (bird). Rather than have the blind be an under the arc blind, I had the gunner stand right at the edge of the point, and had Hitch run behind him, since that is what we have been doing this week in other locations...

The scenario worked just as I anticipated..Hitch did fine when we ran the blind the first time...Then we threw and he picked up the mark easily. When I lined him up for the blind he took a GREAT line through the first section of water, all the way to the shore's edge, where the brush is and turned left to go out to the old fall...I had two cast refusals, the first one I let go w/out collar correction, the second one was corrected. He then took the cast and went straight to the blind. Repeated the procedure, except this time he was not diverted by the old mark and lined the blind....overall I felt it was a good training session, so we left it at that for the day.


Juli

quote:

Originally posted by Norene Szechenyi:
Juli,
Do you have to run from this exact spot or can you move right at all.....and still view the end of the pond from this opening.... Just wondering outloud! LOL

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

Yes, I could move to the right, however, I had run a mark from 'about' this location earlier this week...LOL! the yellow line indicates where our 'current' blind is....Trying to run it in reverse would be very difficult because you would definitely lose sight of the dog after he went over the point.....

quote:

Originally posted by Kent Stokesberry:
Well I don't scare easily and shyed away from a thought I had at first site of this ........Now that the brave ones commented ......I feel a little more confident to say for training it looks tough Juli....That is if you are trying to avoid failure and get the most out of this blind for you and your dog.

Tim......I like how you do business .....Seeing this from the otherside makes for a heck of a blind .....and a little more less to go wrong too.....

I also see where Norene is coming from by pushing this right too......that land sucking point brought into the picture a bit more .....

I'll say this Juli.......you certainly don't buckle to pressure LOL.....

You might just have to get the chain saw out of the truck.....

Would a handler be wrong to line their dog hard left of the point ...maybe even moreso than usual and then stop the dog just after the point a bit......and then cast to the right to avoid losing them all the way right ? Or would that be cheaten not in the land running sense of the word ..

LOL! This is why I post up these things...You all have to remember, I have NO ONE here to tell me if what I am setting up is too hard, too easy, or just right... So I do what I think will be a good challenging blind or mark for my dog.......and usually teach...(when I am being smart!)

Want to talk about cool (though kinda UGLY)..before training today we jumped some ducks at the back right corner of the pond, we (bird boy, and I) were walking down the road behind where the blue line ends... most of the ducks were out of range, but I somehow managed to barely hit one mallard that was about 40 yds out...She sailed waaaay over to the far left side of the pond, into the back corner right at the edge of the picture..I had not expected birds, and Hitch was airing in the woods behind me when I shot......IT weren't pretty, but I got him to the end of the blind, about where the bird had landed, and he found the trail and beat that thick brush pulling her out...LOL..then we went training. (nothing like hunting and training in the same hour!)

Juli

quote:

Originally posted by Kent Stokesberry:

Would a handler be wrong to line their dog hard left of the point ...maybe even moreso than usual and then stop the dog just after the point a bit......and then cast to the right to avoid losing them all the way right ? Or would that be cheaten not in the land running sense of the word ..

You would be "avoiding the test". This blind is set up to see if a dog will enter running water at an angle-enter swimming water - get their feet dry- and then get back in the water. Like most good blinds there is criteria at the beginning, the middle and the end.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Kent Stokesberry:
Well I sort of knew this

I know one thing ...that as soon as my dog hit water he could run in ....it's off to the races.Keeping him straight.....how do they say ?....would be futile....LOL

So to train for this.......Would this question hold true ......Would sending the dog on line to just before the point and stopping him and casting back be correct ?....As opposed to just trying this and praying that he be a good boy ?
I just see him being smart and totally blowing right through this to the bird way right .....

Why compromise the performance? Set the stage to correct and help the dog through it.

Assuming the dog has been de-cheated and will handle. When bending to far right stop and handle. If cast refusal stop again and have the stage set for set for a "pop-up" throw at the blind.

Just a thought.

Tim

Kent,

If your dog could get there in three whistles that is awesome...

The first section of water, up to the little dead branches is running water..as soon as the dog is over those, he is swimming....

Juli

Dang you can shoot ducks already! AK is paridise!

You can ONLY shoot ducks IF you live in an area which FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE is allowed....Tok is considered a Federal Subsistence community because of it's rural location and the dependence on wild game by 99% of the people that live here...We also took a bull moose under federal subsistence regulations...(which allow us to hunt in Wrangell St Elias Nat'l Park)...For waterfowl, the regs, which I have in front of me, put the opening day for on Aug 1.

I have had other inquiries about this, and I have checked and double checked, and triple checked the regs, to make sure I am within the law.

Juli

LOL! opened in mid July...I must have been reading the wrong page...LOL But we can hunt the regular state season also, which opens Tues.

Juli