Just a question on force fetch. Is it neccessary to force fetch a natural retriever? I have two young pups at about 16 weeks. They are retrieving to hand, doing good on basic obedience(sit, stay, here, etc.). They have been introduced to both live and dead birds(pigeons). They want to chew the birds, but have taken care of that problem by freezing dead birds. Very birdy and will hunt for the bird if placed in the yard. I have had three labs, and two other chessies, all have been trained to the whistle and hand signals. They all would do blinds, and none have been forced. I have a wild hair about wanting to try field trialing. It seems like everything I have read about training for field trials has a section on force fetch. Is it neccessary to force fetch in order to be competive in a modern American field trial? I do understand that it may may be neccessary in some situations, but is it really neccessary if no problems present themselves? Thanks.

Elbert Rush
animalx1@excite.com

Hello Elbert,
I really don't know the situation in the FT world in the USA is and I think it's a matter of looking how and why your dog does develope him-or herself.
In total of 4 chesapeake I owned,I only did once forced fetch and the reason was a stupid one!!!
When you get a little bit older and you're going to look in a very different way to things and you get closer to your dogs and spent more time with them,you're not in a hurry to do and learn things to your dog.
Mostly,I think,it is a lack of time,inexperience,too many dogs,to eager in competition,hush and hurry, etc.etc.
I agree with a Pro to do some forced things,and that is his job,to prepare a dog in a very short time and solve problems the owners have.Time and money!!!!
When,as you say,you have a natural retriever,and that is looking at the pedigree and talking,listening,searching and communication with the breeders on FT dogs,I should be crazy to forced fetch such a dog.It would harm him more than that he learn.
So I would look for a FTbreeder with natural and purebred dogs,but nowadays we don't have the time anymore to wait,watch and see when something very good will be born and can develop in an easy way and be honest,strict and be a "packleader"for your dog!!!!!
DD

In most situations regarding hunting, and even hunt tests, you may be able to go entirely without using any kind of force fetch. However, hie thee to an AKC field trial, hang out at the open, and see what passes for a typical test of retrievers. We ask these dogs to do things that they would RARELY or NEVER encounter in a day's hunting, and we ask them to do it well. Remember, at a field trial, it's not just how well you do the test, it's how much BETTER your dog is than the other dogs.

Force fetch is just a part of an overall program that teaches a young dog how to deal with pressure (physical AND mental). The dog learns that it can not only handle pressure, but that it actually controls pressure to some degree, through correct performance of requested action. The more successful the dog is at using pressure in a positive manner, the more confident the dog will be, and the more able to handle those tough, tough field trial concepts.

Learning how to turn pressure off, and learning how to work as part of a team starts with force fetch. You can do the force work yourself, or send your pup to a trainer with EXTENSIVE experience training young Chessies (Chessies aren't like Labs). Force fetch is only part of the entire basics training succession that starts with beginning obedience, and ends with swim-by. Once a dog has good, solid basics in it, then you can branch out from there, adding on more complex training concepts, or try different things, depending on when your ultimate goal is.

I just got a young dog back less than a week ago, after 1 year+ of training. Not only is she marking and doing blinds at the SH/MH level, she has learned HOW to learn. In this last week, we've worked on competitive obedience skills, and I am introducing agility skills. She is doing excellently at both, with less than a week of work, because she has learned how to be part of a team, and she enjoys training, and handles pressure very well. All these things she learned by having a thorough force program. Learning even entirely new things comes very easily now, because she knows how to handle any kind of training situation.

That's why to force fetch.

Lisa

I do hunt tests and have done qualifying in Ft. You have a misunderstanding about force fetching. Force fetching is essential to having a fully trained retriever. Force Fetching reinforces what you have taught your dog. In addition, you must understand the difference between active and passive retrieving. Passive is what comes natural. Active is what we teach our dogs in addition to what is natural. Without introducing active retrieving through the first stage being force fetching your dog may never reach his/her potential as a fully trained retiever.
I suggest you observe hunt test and field trials. And you will see the difference between a dog who does passive retrieving and one that has both passive and active. This is just my opinion and what I say may be of no value.

This has been a frequent question.
As with most things in triaining it is not an absolute but I think it is a good idea. Force fetching is an extension of basic command -response obedience drills. That can only help in future training.
It is not a difficult thing to do and it is not all that time consuming.
So the real question is: Why not FF?

Tim

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FF is essential to having a fully-trained companion
Moscowitz
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So the real question is: Why not FF?

timothy carrion
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Both are 100% accurate!

Force-fetching is the first step/building-block in the "Great Pyramid" of ADVANCED RETRIEVER TRAINING!

Bruce

How much time a day should you train ff. I don't want to over due it. Or is there such a thing. I train about 20min. a day 3-4 day a week.Thanks

My husband Dom does the FF on our dogs........he spends about 10 minutes, somettimes twice a day, everyday if possible at the onset....depending. Keeping the dog's attitude up and not building resentment is important.......at least I think so.......

Norene S.

Tenor,
Norene is correct about Ten minutes is the Max amount when possible to end on a good note i.e. solid hold, an open accepting mouth, a reach for etc. Sometimes it not possible to advance forward so back up and find a constructive point as F-F often is two steps forward one back...think calm p-a-t-i-e-n-c-e!
Good Training,
DaveB

Natural training for a retriever is great "IF" the retriever brings back the bird or "IF" it takes the bird off in to the bush and eats it either way it's natural but a retriever that has basic obedience first then force fetch has a foundation of training that will last the retriever the rest of his life. All training is not written in stone if you have a return problem or a hold problem you can always step back and do a little tune up training I have a pup and his idea of doing anything was his way or his way, at six months of age he weight's 70lb. after obedience and FF it has sunk in the more I do as told the more I get to retrieve and work in the field and it payed of this summer one weekend WC/JR/HT earning one leg but as I was once told when I was younger "do as you like" and live a day longer. just my 2cts.worth.

Go to www.northernflight.com
Butch Goodwin a CBR guy has video/reading material explaining and showing FF.

If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, have a pro(reputable) do it for you.

Good luck!

It's funny how this old thread comes to life every couple years--look at the original date, it's from 2003! I think animalx1 still posts on here and in fact I think he has FF'd those 2 pups and put some titles on them, too.

20 min is too long, IMHO.....IF you need to help keep track of the time you're spending try using a kitchen timer and setting it for about 8 minutes...(That way you have a couple of minutes to work the dog out of the session)...

Juli