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Hey I was wondering how a tipical qualifing stake was set up.
How many marks, distances of marks, distances of blinds, and how many series. |
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Jtowne,
I've run 10 Q's and judged 1. They are 4 series. 1st series is usually a triple with one retired mark, the length in marks can vary, I've seen long retired as long as 300 yards with a short retired that was about 60 yards. Last year I witnessed a first series that was a double but the retired mark was very, very, very long and almost all handled or hunted the county except for the 2 peakes. The 2nd series is a land blind. You may even see a double land blind with one on the backside of the flyer with a long blind up the middle of the marks. You may also see a land blind run seperate from the marks. Length will vary but be prepared to go long..up to 300 yards or longer. 3rd series is a water blind. You will see it all here, long angled entries over multiple points, 200 yards long or longer and as short as 100 yard channel blind with someone sitting out on a bucket en route to bird. 4th series is usually a water triple with one retired, again they can be very long and tough or short and tight and tough. Go watch a couple and you will get a better idea. From my experience they seem to be much harder to complete than a Master Hunt test and are usually much longer. Scott |
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Boy am I glad I don't run the circuit Scott runs! I can't remember how many quals I've run or judged. I'd guess run 50 or more and judged more than 10.
Its the toughest stake to judge cause you do not know whether you will have a bunch of young dogs just coming out of the derby or a bunch of dogs ready to move up to the majors until you get to look at a program, usuall the day you set up tests. The grounds and water you have to use has a big impact on what you do in the way of tests, and usually the minor stakes don't get the best. If you start on Saturday and the open has finished their first series and moved on and you don't have any cross overs, i.e. dog in open and qual, you can sometimes get the land the open used. I do not like to retire a gun in the first series. I will usually throw a triple and spread'em out. If you have extremely good terrain you can get by with a double. Remember you usually have some newbies in the field and if you knock'em out in the 1st series, they will likely never come back and the game will die from the lack of new blood. You do not have to eliminate dogs to judge them. I usually set up the land blind to be run right after the marks in the same field as the marks, but try to get a good distance away from the old marks and not down wind of the flyer. Remember these are young dogs and you can judge a blind without having the dogs fail cause you set up a blind they will get into serious trouble on. If I have a big entry and more than a couple of pros running I will do a combo; run the marks then move to a different line and run the blind by invitation (and the dog has to fail the marks, not just have a couple or three hunts to fail). This way you get two series done quicker. For the water blind so much depends on the water you get to use it is difficult to say what is normal. If I back up from the edge any then I usually don't make get out and then back in. If we start close to the water they may have to do a re-entry. So much depends on the temp, the wind , and what you have available. I do not put out distractions, either visual or scent. For the water marks I usually do a triple and usually do not retire a gun, unless I've got a stack of dogs all tied up. To me the water marks are the most important part of the trial and the winner usually wins on the water marks. Again it depends on what you have to use and the weather. Scott's distances are right but he is, I think, giving you the extremes. I would either try to watch a few or get with someone who has run plenty and train with them. I always try to train on the toughest set ups I can think of (but I break them into pieces to train not test). I too think quals are harder than hunt tests, but I haven't run a lot of hunt tests HTH John Ackerman |
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Nice thread, nice informative replies!
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John I wish I could run qual under you. I have run and seen some quals as hard as an amat. Yet I have also rn qual just as you describe.
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The qualifying is to find out which dogs are the best at: counting up to 3, remembering a retired gun, lining, handling and honoring. It's just that simple!
 There is no formula as in HTs. I've run and judged Q's that: started on land marks and some started on water, some with all double marks and some with all triples, Q's with and without retired guns, blinds with marks and blinds separate, single blinds and double blinds. My last Q assignment started with land triple 120* spread 1 retired all marks under 175yds. The 2nd and 3rd series in a new area was a double blind both under 200yds but with 1-2 factors: land first, water by invitation . Last series triple/honor, none retired, dogs had to swim for #'s 1 and 3 and #2 was on land. Forty some dog stated and about 14 got a ribbon of some color. Tim This message has been edited. Last edited by: timothy carrion, |
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Thanks for the info. I will try to make it to a Q and see how they are runned. I would love to try and run my Chessie in it someday. But right now I am working my way up the hunt test but in training I am stretching out to try and keep everything farther than 100 yards.
In training for this how far should the marks and blinds be. Right now I mostly train by myself and I use my hand launcher and Bumper Boy. For triples I will do a maw and paw double with the BB at about 150 yards and then a shot the hand launcher. Then I run about 100 yard blind. Or I will do a double double with the hand launcher and BB. Tim I was up your place this morning. |
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Ok I do want to try a Q this year. How should I go about selecting what Q I should try?
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JP when you're ready try and coordinate with Mike Moscowitz and I.
We will run the Quals in the NJ area this year. Also Bob Gutermuth is a CBR guy in Cambridge Maryland who runs in Quals. He's retired and I'm sure will glady help you on training setups. John, Happy New Year!! Barbara and I are well, and looking forward to the 08 season with Hunter. John if you decide to judge in my vicinity this year I would like to apprentice under you! thanks, Malcolm |
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The Lab RC inc. is having a Owner Handler Q in July that is judged by Bob Guttermuth and Vincent Woody Sprong. Think you guys are going to make the trip? July 18 in Elkton. http://www.akc.org/events/search/index_results.cfm?acti...19&cde_comp_group=FT &cde_comp_type=&NEW_END_DATE1=&key_stkhldr_event= |
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To soon to tell. But if Bob is judging I can asure you it will not be a walk in the park. I ran a master test under Bob and it was my first and only quad I ever ran in hunt tests. You will see quad in field trials - open and amat.
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O great. I am running my first master next month at the Delbay double master. Bob and Mike Bunting are juding one. Craig Stonesifer and Charles Lesser are juding the other test. Should make for a fun weekend. |
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Hopefully Mike B. will have sense enough to talk Bob out of running any quads....brother! If you wanted to run Q's or trials...fine, but IMO there should not be quads in hunt tests...
Juli |
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Well if you are planning on running a Master (and I know nothing about the judges mentioned or about running back east) you better be prepared for anything & everything........quad's included......delayed triples/quads.......You name it and we have seen it and/or run it on this coast....Just my two cents....... Norene S. "Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation"! |
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I don't doubt that there are a lot of quad type set ups in MH tests (though have never heard of one up here)...I just don't believe that they should be part of the hunt test game...If the AKC wants to add another level, then that's what they should do...they can call it the Super Master or something like that..and run 250 yd marks, with all the bells and whistles included...people play the hunt test game for fun..not to go run a mini trial. and I haven't even been there yet! (but I guess I'm still allowed my opinion  - no matter how far off base it is  )Juli |
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 Hey for sure everyone is entitled to their opinion......I'm just speaking from experience not only as a competitor, but as a judge as well. Running a quad is not necessarily an indication of the difficulty of the test. You can set up a double or triple that could be more difficult than a quad. Why wouldn't a quad be fun to do? If one has trained their dog to the standard of what a MH dog should be, anything & everything, especially the unusal is not only challenging, but FUN!!! Also, the difference between FT and HT is that the dogs in the hunt test are judged against a standard, and in FT's you are going for places....so the HT's will never be like running a 'mini trial'! Norene S. "Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation"! |
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The Lab RC inc. is having a Owner Handler Q in July that is judged by Bob Guttermuth and Vincent Woody Sprong. Think you guys are going to make the trip? July 18 in Elkton.
http://www.akc.org/events/search/index_results.cfm?acti...19&cde_comp_group=FT I will try to make there! Good luck with your winter training |
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We do have quads in MH tests up here, Juli, even though you might not have seen any. And like Norene said, the number of marks does not indicate test difficulty. If we've got the manpower & the situation calls for it, quads can be lots of fun. And fun to judge too. The dogs still have to mark the falls & remember them, and sometimes parking that rear is the hardest part. Hope to see you at FRC's hunt tests in June!!
Karen |
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Billy I would really like to hear your take on this.
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