I was wondering who updates the Tulemist site?

I really enjoy reading thier list of list and was wondering how often it is updated?

Or is thier a updated list of list?

Not sure about the tulemist site but The Chessie data base is more up to date. You must have been there right? I guess they don't really have "the list" which is too bad.

http://www.chessiedb.org/

AKC stopped sending out their subscription stud book pages to the general public & that's how the TuleMist pedigree website was updated. The info is sort of available for personal use only through the parent breed club, but anyone who obtains it has to sign first sign an agreement that they won't use the information for public use or financial gain, i.e. can only use it for their own information. Consequently, the TuleMist website probably has not received current updates since AKC stopped publishing the stud books for subscription by the general public. Tom posts to this list, so perhaps he will see this thread and respond.

Since the other website is updated by anyone who wants to enter the data for their dogs into the database, it may be more current....but then again it may also not be particularly accurate if the information goes in incorrectly.

Kathy Miller

If it's the "list of lists" you like, I maintain these now for the ACC. Am working on getting these posted to the ACC website, hopefully soon!

Lisa

Lisa,
Wow, you must be busy.

I guess now we will know who to thank.

quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Van Loo:
If it's the "list of lists" you like, I maintain these now for the ACC. Am working on getting these posted to the ACC website, hopefully soon!

Lisa

Cool when do you think that will be done?

Also what got me thinking was the thread on RTF about the Champion Master Hunters. How many CH.-M.H. chessies are thier and on average how many a year earn that title?

Tulemist.com is my website. The Rollcall database and the list of lists were published on this site to make the data available to anyone who might be interested. Many of the lists in the List of Lists were originally published in Eloise Heller Cherry's "The Complete Chesapeake Bay Retriever". I tried to update an publish that data as best I could. I was able to use data from ACC's archives as well as the data published monthly by AKC in the Titles and Awards publication.

Chesapeake RollCall was a long time project of trying to generate a database of all the old AKC records on the breed as published in their monthly Stud Book publication. Most of the data entry was done during periods of travel when I was working for the Environmental Labs. It is amazing how much data you can enter on a flight from Sacramento to Ohio or Florida. Or when in your hotel room. Note that the original data in RollCall was obtained from copies of the AKC Stud Book going back to the inception of AKC bought from the AKC and funded be several members of the Chessie community. Many years of CKC data were also purchased and included in RollCall.


The amount of time required to keep this data current was substantial. At the time I asked (begged) for some help in the compiling of the different lists and database, but recieved few offers of help. And then AKC stopped making the data available. The Stud Book is now only available to the club and anyone wanting copies or information from the Stud Book must sign a form stating that the information will not be used commercially or made public.

I was thinking about adding a front end data entry form the RollCall to allow anyone to add or edit data. But that took away from the original premise that the data in Rollcall was verified as coming from a documeneted and reliable source. And as Chessiedb.org already had much of the RollCall data and already allowed for the addition and editing of data, finally decided that there shouldn't be 2 competing sites.

As is Chessiedb is built on an earlier copy of RollCall. You can verify this by searching chessiedb using TMN00537 as the search string. The TMN (anagram for Tom's Magic Number) numbering was used in RollCall for dogs that I encountered that did not have an AKC or CKC number. Also note that RollCall is credited in the Chessiedb "About Us" page. The main difference in the Chessiedb data and that in RollCall is that the ChessieDB database contains info on just under 21,000 dogs and has recent updates. The RollCall database at Tulemist.com has data for nearly 48,000 dogs, but has not been updated in several years. And while ChessieDB is more current, it is only current where someone has edited the information. Many of the titles in ChessieDB have not been updated since that version of RollCall was distributed (probably a good 10 years ago).

Let me know if there are any other questions.

T. Mac

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tom M,

T. Mac,

Well that is quite an ambitious undertaking. I enjoy your web site and I am glad to have the opportunity to say “Thanks”.

Learning about the breed’s history is important if you care about where it might be heading in the future. I am sure entering all that data you noticed some interesting trends.

My background is with the imported German Shorthairs and they have a very meticulous record keeping system. It helps them make better choices when it comes to breeding. I think as sites like Entry Express make a dogs testing history easily available to the public eventually it will help the breed. Although there is never a substitute for laying eyes on a dog.

I am a little perplexed why the AKC felt the need to protect the Stud Book information. Did it contain personal info such as addresses?

Also I am curious how other testing venues like NAHRA and the HRC could be tracked. The most important information in regards to breeding is not only in regards to the parents but how well their offspring perform.

Now I am rambling. Thanks again.

Tom it is a great site and thanks for all you have done with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam L.:

I am a little perplexed why the AKC felt the need to protect the Stud Book information. Did it contain personal info such as addresses?

Also I am curious how other testing venues like NAHRA and the HRC could be tracked. The most important information in regards to breeding is not only in regards to the parents but how well their offspring perform.

Adam,

Thanks for the nice comments. Regarding your question regarding AKC's reason for their Stud Book decision, I think a lot of it is $$$ based. The online breed databases that permit pedigree creation are/were probably having a major impact on AKC's own pedigree sales. I find it fairly amuzing that it wasn't long after I made the RollCall database available online that generated pedigrees with CERF and OFA data that AKC began including that data in their pedigrees.

Regarding NAHRA and UKC, early in the development of RollCall I sent each of them a letter asking if I could get a list of the Chessies who had earned each of their titles. Also asked UKC for the same thing for their obedience titles. Even offered to pay them for it! Never did hear back from them.

While I am disapointed that I'm not able to continue to update RollCall, I sure don't miss all that time I used to spend on its data input.

T. Mac

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tom M,

The AKC making a decision based on money, I find that hard to believe.

Tom;

AKC's decisions have nothing to do with your work, so you can rest easy on that account!

At present, there are almost 3 dozen bogus "kennel clubs" that will "register" your mutt-dog for you (for a fee, of course). These folks were using AKC Stud Books to create "pedigrees" for people's dogs. AKC is primarily a registry, and maintaining their stud book is their primary job. When they had to deal with a flood of people wanting "AKC papers" on their non-registered dogs because they had "papers" with AKC pedigrees they bough from these other registries, it became very clear that KC had to do something.

yes, it is a pain to have to sign waivers. But AKC only bans commercial use. there is nothing about not making it public, so long as you have protection on your website so that nobody can spider (steal electronically) your entire database. Many individuals and most Parent Clubs have databases that are fairly complete and contain this AKC information. Heck, AKC even hosts these databases on one of their websites.

s far as printing OFA/CERF data on registration and pedigree documehts, AKC started doing this before Tom got his first Chessie.

Lisa

AKC started doing the OFA & CERF before Tom's Rollcall went live. AS I posted on another board, Eve Keeler in 1986/7 published the first attempt at a definitive listing of all CBRS back to the very beginning (dogs registered AKR & through kennel records). Made it easier for those who came after to compile their data. BTW, she did purchase UKC information via a newsletter similar to the Gazette. In the beginning NAHRA also published a magazine with names of dogs and titles. Do not know if they still do.

The Chesapeake is very fortunate that there are people like Lisa, Tom, Eve and Kathy Miller helped Eve at the start of the work that were/are interested enough to do this. It takes a lot of personal time. There are MANY breeds who do not have the type data the CBR does.

Great to see that list of Ch/MH dogs too. Thanks Lisa.

Dyane



As far as printing OFA/CERF data on registration and pedigree documehts, AKC started doing this before Tom got his first Chessie.

Lisa[/QUOTE]

You can still purchase the UKC/HRC information. I just haven't done it yet! Now that I am semi caught up, I will be obtaining that info.

I get a list of NAHRA titles roughly every couple of years. Hard to get at that info, as they do not maintain a registry. But they do have lists of titled dogs. You ave to be a member to access, so I just get one of my spies to obtain the data for me.

Lisa

Truth be known, I started it when I compiled "The History of The Chesapeake Bay Retriever by Pedigree" in the early 80's. This was a collection published through ACC of 350 Chesapeake pedigrees of 4-6 generations, including all the American & Canadian Field Trial Champions, and all the stud dogs advertised in the Bulletin. It was done from pedigrees that were submitted to me from all over the U.S. including some very old ones. In tracing Dual Ch. & AFC Sodak's Gypsy Prince I discovered that in the 5th or 6th generation he went back to a dog that Nancy Lowenthal's dad owned. Eve got involved when I contacted her to extend a pedigree on a chesapeake she had. She found out what I was doing and offered to help me with the 150 pages of lists of hard to find dogs & other important dogs with their sires & dam's as I was doing them by typewriter and she could do them on her computer at work.

At this same time Eloise Heller Cherry was in the process of publishing The Complete CBR for Howell House and asked me to provide the pedigree information for her book, which I did.

After my work was released, Eve continued to pursue the information from the lists she had started for me.

Sadly, my Chesapeake History was made available to ACC members by subscription only, and ACC would not allow me to have published any additional copies over and above those subscribed to. Over the years, I've continued to add pedigrees to my collection.

It was also the collection that I did that led to the PRA list that is also no longer available, as a lot of people I contacted sent me pedigrees on their dogs with notations that the dog developed PRA. Dyane Baldwin picked up that list, contacted all the people and was able to obtain documentation on these dogs to validate their PRA status.

Eve's Roll Call eventually evolved from what Eve started helping me with.

Kathy Miller
Sandy Oak Chesapeakes

So you all keep referring to “lists” as in plural. Aside from Tulemist and the list Lisa posted for the CH/MH what other lists are there? Is there another place to delve into Chessie info? Breed statistics etc. etc.?

I am the statistician for the ACC, and I maintain listings of all titled Chessies (primarily AKC titles, but I do track down all others that I can).

Plus, I have a pedigree database that I have developed for my own personal use. This is currently private, although I would like to put it online at some point.

I have also, in the 3 years sionce I took over as ACC statistician, developed new databases for the ACC. There is one for Group placements, one for conformation show points, one that tracks obedience accomplishments, one for rally, and one for agility. These track all scores, placements, etc. in each venue, giving a more thorough picture os a dog's accomplishments.

On the field side, I have maintained my own field trial database for over 20 years, and have recently revamped this using new software applications, so now I can track more closely what our dogs do in FT competitions, plus I can query the data any number of ways to generate reports in Excel CSV format. I am tracking AKC MH passes as well at the moment, but hope to expand this to include Sh and perhaps JH, if time permits.

I also have a listing of all the WD/X/Q dogs, which was maintained for many years by Ginny Reed.

All of these databases I use to generate all sorts of reports, lists, etc. for the various ACC committees, Bulletin contributing editors, and so forth. I have been trying for the last 3 years to get some of these lists onto the website, but to date that has not happened. Hopefully, Billy will be generous in his webspace and post lists of field titl winners, at least until the ACC gets up to speed!

In the mean time, the lists of titles are sent to the ACC Historian on an annual basis, and she takes them to the show specialty with her.

Lisa

Well first of, Thanks. That has to be a big time commitment and in the end I feel it is pretty important work.

It seems this info would be best placed on the ACC’s web site. I guess that would be easier said than done? Do you use sites like Entry Express to track test and trail results?

Thanks for the response.

I get test and trial results from AKC via their official publications.

Placing the pedigree database on the ACC website may not be possible, largely because of security reasons. There are unscrupulous people out there who think nothing of electronically swiping entire databases and putting them on their own websites. I need a site with good security, and a webmaster who understands both the need and the practical application of such a site. There are other sites out there that are set up for putting this type of database on the web with security measures in place, and I will likely go that route.

As far as lists of titled dogs, health cleared dogs and so forth, not sure what the holdup is there. I have sent these lists now to 3 different webmasters, and so far nothing has gone on the website. Lots of health artiicles, too, for that matter.

Lisa