A big change in Puppy, older dogs and Stud dog advertisements will take place in about two months. The advertiser will list results that will include hip [OFA], heritable eye disease [CERF], Progressive Retinal Atrophy, Exercise Induced Collapse and Degenerative Myelopathy of a dog or parents of a litter. Also any links to other sites with puppies or dogs for sale must carry the same information. You may still post a dog or litter but you better have all the testing done, good or bad, before you post. Please feel free to comment on this before this rule change!

Billy

hey Billy,

I like your approach to 'open' information...let the buyer decide based upon their own needs and/or wants...

just a question... if a stud dog (or sire/dam of litter) is listed as eic clear through clear parentage, is that okay? or DM, or PRA....

Juli

Billy, I think it's a great ideal. There are alot of people like myself that through this forum are just learning about these problems. For the uneducated buyer, after seeing these results, they may at least do a little research. I did

SUPERLATIVE !

Thanks Billy

quote:

just a question... if a stud dog (or sire/dam of litter) is listed as eic clear through clear parentage, is that okay? or DM, or PRA....

Hey Juli -- I quess if the seller can prove it, it would be fine.

Billy

Next week I'm off to the Midwest to run some field trials with the "Rocket" so I may not be around much.

Billy !
Are you saying that these test have to be done before you can list a puppy add or are you saying that you have to state wether you have had them done or not ! Also are they all a prerequisites before you will allow a posting of a litter ? If so is this not a little harsh to go this far in one step and if not then where is the OFA elbows certification . Is that not important ?
Martin Pinder

Billy,

I commend you. Lets lay the cards on the table. So everyone can see your hand. No bluffing!!!

Regards, Tom Wilkins

Do you just want the results IF they were tested or are you saying any post MUST have all the test and the reults?


Also does the EIC test from the study count?

quote:

Originally posted by B Smith:
A big change in Puppy, older dogs and Stud dog advertisements will take place in about two months. The advertiser will list results that will include hip [OFA], heritable eye disease [CERF], Progressive Retinal Atrophy, Exercise Induced Collapse and Degenerative Myelopathy of a dog or parents of a litter. Also any links to other sites with puppies or dogs for sale must carry the same information. You may still post a dog or litter but you better have all the testing done, good or bad, before you post. Please feel free to comment on this before this rule change!

Billy

Good. I assume this means that frozen semen from deceased non DNA tested sires, will now have to be tested to advertise a breeding from the same.

Norene & Dom S.
Nordoom Chesapeakes

For the unwashed newbies, how about an explanation for the things you mentioned, past the OFA certification.

Tim

quote:

Are you saying that these test have to be done before you can list a puppy add or are you saying that you have to state wether you have had them done or not ! Also are they all a prerequisites before you will allow a posting of a litter ? If so is this not a little harsh to go this far in one step and if not then where is the OFA elbows certification . Is that not important ?

Martin -- If you are going to sell a puppy or offer a stud dog you got to have the tests done before you place the add. I may include elbows. I want every one using my page to be up front with people who buy puppies or use a stud dog. There are a bunch of people out there who just don't know what their getting into! I had a newbie ask about a litter and I told him to ask about DM in the family tree. The newbie asked the breeder and the breeder seemed to forget. This guy had a GSD with DM and he did not want to take a chance with a Peake. I sent him elsewhere. Lets lay the cards on the table as Tom stated. We all should have a bunch of time to get these tests done! Dogs with straws can get some of the testing done.

Billy

Billy I don't disagree I was just trying to understand the perameters . There are things that don't have certification that are just as serious and some breeders don't mention them until the puppy buyer say something and then it
was a poblem on one side of the pedigree or the other ie: inward turning eye lashes, epilepsy,
thyroid,etc.
As far as elbows I have seen dogs with bad elbows that could hardly stand and walk properly let alone work a field .
You are doing the right thing . I have and always will have all of my chesapeakes tested
for everything wether they are ever going to be bred or just work as a hunting companion.
Keep up the good work to help protect the breed.
Martin Pinder

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Martin Pinder,

quote:

Originally posted by Martin Pinder:
Billy I don't disagree I was just trying to understand the perameters . There are things that don't have certification that are just as serious and some breeders don't mention them until the puppy buyer say something and then it
was a poblem on one side of the pedigree or the other ie: inward turning eye lashes, epilepsy,
thyroid,etc.
As far as elbows I have seen dogs with bad elbows that could hardly stand and walk properly let alone work a field .
You are doing the right thing . I have and always will have all of my chesapeakes tested
for everything wether they are ever going to be bred or just work as a hunting companion.
Keep up the good work to help protect the breed.
Martin Pinder

Martin;

We are on the same page. I always test all my dogs, too, and not just for the clearance stuff. I had someone really questioning my sanity about all the time & $ I have put into Gopher (who is spayed), but the way I look at it, it tells me a lot about that bloodline, good & bad, so when I decide to breed my other bitch (Gopher's neice) I will have a better picture. Besides, some of us do this for fun!?!

One correction, though. With thyroid, there is a test that can be used to detect the genetic form of hypothyroidism. Wish more people would use it.

Billy;

My database is pretty useful. I track all the EIC, DM, PRA, etc. clearances, along with the usual OFA stuff. Anyway, I am able to trace down through the generations all the Clear By Parentage (CBP) dogs in each of these gene tests, and have them labeled as such. If there is ever any question about a dog, you can contact me and I will check my records for you.

I like the approach; it does put everyone on an equal footing. Not to mention, if more poeple went public with their dogs' results, then we would all get a better understanding of how every dog carries something. It will be very hard for a dog to "pass" all these tests.

I don't know about frozen semen breedings, though. Some of the tests have technology that can extract DNA from semen samples; most do not. How about, when it is a frozen semen breeding, that the bitch have all the checks done in order to "balance" the equation?

Well, I guess you can jump off that bridge when you get to it!

Lisa

Maybe Lisa could put her data base on this web page? I think I could give you the keys to that page and she could run it! Anyway I know a dog that was tested for DM using frozen semen.

Hey, Billy;

We can talk about getting the health database up on your website. Am still trying to get something going with ACC as well, but I think people want the information sooner rather than later. Shoot me a PM; I am forgetting things right and left these days with Dad's surgery just days away!

To everyone else: if Billy's new policy seems strict, let me dangle this tidbit in front of you: doing health checks is the cheapest part of breeding dogs! I just did hips, elbows, thyroid, patellas, and DM tests on my young bitch; total cost was less than $400, half what one pup would sell for. Most of these tests only have to be done once, so it's not like you have to do them over and over.

So you are looking at a startup cost that is way less than the price of a pup (for a bitch) or one stud fee (for a male).

I bet most of you spend more than that on beer and cigarettes for the month! LOL!

Lisa

Hi Lisa!
I did know there is a test for hypothyroidism, but there is no certification program to make you register a dog that is affected or carries
it.
So unless a breeder tells you of the possiblity
of the pup having a predisposition to thyroid problems you never find out until the dog shows a problem.
I have a close friend that ran into this problem and when he said something to the breeder, they refused to help even though they admitted the bitch had a problem .
We can only do our best to test our bitches and be straight up with buyers as to what we have done to try to produce a sound animal .
I think this is a great step forward from where we have come !!!!
Martin Pinder

Billy, Excellent Idea!!

Lisa wrote "I like the approach; it does put everyone on an equal footing. Not to mention, if more poeple went public with their dogs' results, then we would all get a better understanding of how every dog carries something. It will be very hard for a dog to "pass" all these tests."

Agree! The benefits are too numerous not to do this. One point not addressed is the fact that you (as a general term) don't
know what the dog purchased will be used for, eg breeding with another dog owned, for 'stud', etc. By requiring advertised dogs to have medical clearances for genetic ailments, everyone will be clear on what they can or cannot do in regards with the dog(s).

The cost is minimal (as Lisa pointed out). One big plus of doing this is that, by everyone realizing every cbr's may have something in it's bloodline, it does not 'mean the end of the world' for the dog, rather it's an informative tool to allow the breed to prosper. Also, by allowing the 'public' to realize that most cbr's carry a gene, dominant or ressessive for
one disease or another, it may - in the long run - benefit all, breed & us as owners. Especially when mass testing starts to occur, then the fears of a "tested positive dog" for this-or-that will become less 'scary' or taboo. Thank You!Charlie

Billy,
Since these ads for puppies and stud dogs will be available to the public I think a general statement regarding the fact that clinical significance/disease potential of dogs with the presence of certain genes is unknown and is being investigated.

Tim

quote:

Agree! The benefits are too numerous not to do this. One point not addressed is the fact that you (as a general term) don't
know what the dog purchased will be used for, eg breeding with another dog owned, for 'stud', etc. By requiring advertised dogs to have medical clearances for genetic ailments, everyone will be clear on what they can or cannot do in regards with the dog(s).

Charles, I have to disagree here as a breeder because a breeder should know what the buyer is going to use that pup for especially if the buyer wants to breed the pup. And, if the buyer is not upfront with his intended purposes, then the pup should be put on a limited registration so it is not bred without the same certification that the breeder requires. But maybe this isn't the real world.

It's the way that I function, and especially because, as I've stated previously, I produced PRA and don't want it raising it's ugly head again, so perhaps I'm over cautious!

Kathy Miller
Sandy Oak Chesapeakes

Kathy, You are correct. I wrote that statement too briefly without expressing my point clearer. When I wrote that purchase of the dog/pup may be intended for breeding purposes, I should have delineated clearer - The initial purchase of the dog may be for other purposes but it MAY lead to being breeding stock. For example, someone may acquire the dog/pup to be used in FT/HT events. After great success (if obtained), this person may want to breed this dog (due to others asking for a pup from him/her (dog), that person wants another "high caliber dog" or "achiever", bonded to dog and wants a 'replacement' to remember the dog by - keep the lineage alive, etc).
This leads to the second part of my statement about medical clearances for genetic ailments that everyone will be clear on what they can or cannot do in regards with the dog(s), I was refering (not to dis-allow breeding) to what dogs can sucessfully be bred without allowing these diseases/ailments to appear; ie, if the dog has the allelle for DM, EIC, PRA, etc, you would know to breed only with 'clear' or 'negative' testing dogs.
I know you are a conscious breeder putting cbrs first, as are most others advertising here, but what about the few individuals who never bred before or only bred 1-2x, that advertise abc MH X CH xyz. Billy's requirement for clearances will allow the buyer to have asssurances that they are getting EXACTLY the quality/type of dog stated.