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Sorry in advance for the long post. . .
I have a one year old male Chessie, Dexter. I got started late on FF, but have gotten through it and am stepping up his field work. He is about 75 lbs., athletic, energetic, and full of retrieving desire. Dexter is super friendly to everyone: family and friends, and to strangers. If he has the stereotypical Chessie protective streak, he hasn't exhibited it, which is fine by me. When I got him at 8 weeks, I made a practice for the first few weeks of jostling him, tugging at him, pushing him, etc. at feeding time, as I wanted to ensure he wouldn't nip at children if someone got near him. No problem at all. He just kept munching away, tail wagging without interruption. Naturally, I stopped doing it entirely. At about age 6 mos. or so, I realized I needed to make sure this was still not an issue, so repeated the teasing. His sense of humor about this apparently had waned. Growling bouts ensued until the day he lashed out and bit me, at which point I laid into him. Thereafter, he continued to growl and snarl, but didn't bite. Eventually, he got to where the growling stopped, but it was obvious he was not happy. Fast forward to about 1 month ago. I decided to take a different tact and gently pet him, compliment him, scratch his ears and back, etc. whilst he ate. He still hated it, and growled and snarled. I continued this at every feeding for a few weeks. He actually bit me again last week (not hard enough to breakt he skin), immediately running a few steps away, tail between his legs. He then slunk over to me and tucked his head in under my arm. Nonetheless, in subsequent feedings, the growling continues, although there has been no further lashing out. Last night, I discovered he had stolen my ankle brace from a boot and was merrily chewing away at it. I grabbed it to remove it from his mouth, not even thinking about it, and he snarled and give me a light nip. I was completely shocked and, not knowing what to do about it, ignored it, even as he looked at me with an "Uh oh, what did I do?" look on his face. . . So, maybe it is just me, but I'm seeing a pattern here. Do I break this with an iron fist, or continue on the path of trying to be light and gentle about this? On the feeding thing, I suppose I could live with it and be careful about only feeding him in his crate or kennel, but I'd rather not have it be an issue if a food morsel falls his way and a child tries to grab it. I think I've adhered to the general guidelines out there about not allowing your dog to be the alpha: He sleeps in his crate in the family room at night. He is not permitted on the furniture ever. When I come home he is not allowed out of the kennel immediately. He is not allowed to jump up on me or others. I generally walk through doorways first. Etc., etc. Thoughts and suggestions are hugely appreciated. One final bidtit: he has an undescended testicle, so he will be getting neutered in the next week or so; I had waited until now hoping it would drop first. This message has been edited. Last edited by: TDiii, |
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I do not have the best behaved pup. I also didnt do a lot of the things you have done, lots of retaining and corrections going on in my house. The last time my 85lb 11 mo old pup bit me not hard not even overly aggressive. I bit his ear so damn hard I thought i was gonna draw blood. He squeeled like a pig. I dont think it has even crossed his mind to try it again. Maybe extreme but I could eat out of the same bowl as the pup. My 2 cents if they are worth 2 cents.
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You never interfer with a Chesapeake when he's eating. Chessies are NOT labs or goldens, but an assertive dog with a natural protection instinct and the first place they can and will exhibit this is during feeding times. I've had chesapeakes for 35 years and am a breeder so I pretty much know what I speak!
Leave the dog alone when you feed him! Actually I learned this as a kid growing up with other breeds of dogs. Put them in a crate, kennel run, or the back porch where there is no interference, feed them, and go back 5 or 10 minutes later, pick up their dish and praise them for a job well done. If they never have to learn to protect their food, you will never have a problem. However if you start interfering with them when they eat, you will end up with the problem you now have. So, now how do you solve this problem? First of all, feed the dog in peace. Secondly if the dog has something that you want to take away, and now you are having snarling, snapping, or growling problems, get out a high value item, and trade with the dog making sure to give him lots of praise for trading. Practice trading back and forth. Basically, it was your fault for leaving out something he shouldn't have taken, and the dog doesn't understand that he wasn't supposed to have it because you left it out, so reward him for trading it for something he may have. Always do this until you have no more problems. Keep us posted. Kathy Miller Sandy Oak Chesapeakes |
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In eighteen years I have NEVER owned a food aggressive CBR...we currently reside with five between the ages of two to eleven. However, when ever I have had someone contact me wanting to place their CBR through rescue or I have taken in a CBR foster because of food aggression it's because their owner(s) messed with or teased them while they were eating. Granted, placing a pup/teenager in their crate (or a separate room) to eat seems like it is "avoiding" the issue however, since they have never felt threatened while eating they have no reason to feel the need to protect their food...it's that simple and I have done this for years with great success. JMO, I would forget about the food issue because YOU are not winning the battle. Feed him alone in his crate or in a separate room and remove the food when he is finished. From what you have written I wouldn't trust him especially around your children now because he did bite YOU. You have allowed him to growl over food, it doesn't sound like you did anything to correct this and he now thinks it is acceptable to growl. The object aggression needs to be addressed immediately, it will only get worse as he matures and once again you did nothing to correct this so he now thinks this is acceptable. Every dog is different and that's why I am reluctant to tell anyone to take a chunk out of their dogs ear <vbg> Our most serious come to Jesus meetings in our home is grabbing both ears, looking the dog straight in the eye and firmly yelling NO (or other choice words LOL) and then walking away and ignoring them...which BTW seems to hurt their feelings more then physical reprimands. If this issue continues or the suggestions Kathy has made don't work please seek professional help that has CBR experience. If you don't know of anyone try contacting a CBR rescue volunteer in your area and they may be able to suggest a trainer who will work with you. |
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I second what Kathy and Susie said--leave the dog alone when it eats! Most dogs don't particularly like to be petted/pestered when they eat, most CBRs hate it. I even have a horse that will pin his ears back if you come in his stall when he's eating.
As for giving up objects, since you said the dog is force fetched, his obedience should be such that this is not an issue. But since he has learned he can keep you away from hjs meal by growling and snapping, you have created a monster. Go back to basic obedience and review sit, stay, here and heel. Teach him a down command, too--this is a very good one for pushy alpha wanna be males to learn. If he was properly FF, call him to heel when he has something he shouldn't before you take it away from him. Stamping up to him and snatching the item is just asking for trouble. If you can't get him to deliver to hand, then he wasn't properly FF'd and you know what to do. |
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Thanks for the replies.
Sorry, but some of us will have to agree to disagree on the feeding him separately approach. I can do that, but that does nothing to ensure that he doesn't lash out in an uncontrolled environment. I have never "allowed" him to growl at me. It has been a battle of wills each time, with me commanding him "no", ordering him away from the food to lie down (which he does without issue), tapping him on the nose, etc. When he bit me I got more physical with him. What if I just removed his food the moment he growls? Maybe he learns that if he growls he doesn't eat. His obedience is spot on: come, stay, sit, down, heel (on and off leash), crate (indoors), kennel (outdoors). If he is eating and I call him he comes immediately and won't return to the food bowl until told "Okay". Of course, he's got one eye on his food bowl the whole time and is lying there shaking to get back to it, but he does obey. Excellent point about giving him a substitute when taking something from him and, naturally, it was my fault to leave something he could get to. It frankly, didn't even cross my mind to make him sit and "give", so I will definitely implement that if (i.e., when) I'm careless again in the future. |
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With all due respect, you don't get it do you? Sorry, but you are creating this problem, and the sooner you realize it and act accordingly, the sooner you will find a change in attitude in your dog. Dogs like this come into rescue all the time because the owner made the problem worse and someone got hurt because of it.
I agree that a dog should never be allowed to growl at you, but when you cause the reason, it's unfair to punish the dog. Except for one dog, in 35 years of owning Chesapeakes, I've never had a food aggressive dog. The one who was food aggressive caught me by surprise when I realized I had given him the wrong dinner and tried to trade dishes. He went for me and I threw the stainless steel dish full of the correct dinner at him in his dog run yelling NOOOOOOOO. The dish flew into the run with an incredible clatter on the cyclone and cement, the food flew everywhere, and that's what he got for dinner. I've never seen such a surprised dog, he never did it again. He was about 18 months old at the time and I had owned him since birth! As a child, we grew up with dogs. I can remember the adults repeatedly telling us to leave the dogs alone when they are eating. These are dogs......not people and they don't think the same way as people. And, now you are dealing with a Chesapeake who has a natural instinct to protect. So why would you persecute them when they are eating, may I ask? I'll tell you that if someone started sticking their fingers in my dinner, I'd bite them too esp. if the did it repeatedly! You can do this with other breeds, but generally when you interfer over time with a Chesapeake, you get what you are now dealing with. Do as you wish, but you've come to the board asking for advice, then argue with people who have years of experience with this breed! Yup, I call it as I see it. Do you want us to tell you to beat the dog? To put an electric collar on the dog and shock him? If you don't like the advice you've received, then what do you want to hear? Because that's what it boils down to. Why don't you try what we suggested, then give the dog some time to settle down and become comfortable with his eating again, and perhaps you will find that what we suggested really does work. Meanwhile, I will say no more  Kathy Miller Sandy Oak Chesapeakes |
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I'm willing to accept that you are far more experienced with dogs than I. I've only owned 4 chessies over a 25 year period , and only trained one beside that (none with a collar). So compared to your 35 years and probably hundreds of dogs I am a neophyte. None of them exhibited any aggression around food, with the same treatment, but I must have been lucky. Are you sayting that i should feed him in his crate for an extended period of time, say 6 months or so, then test it out and if it is an issue, make a big scene and then it won't be a problem? I guess I don't understand. You say you don't have food aggression in any of your dogs, but the implication is that you wouldn't know if you have food aggreession because you make sure they get to eat undisturbed. This message has been edited. Last edited by: TDiii, |
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"Pick your battles" is good general advice for living w/ Chessies. I will concur with the other experienced Chessie owners that ALL advised you to feed your dog in a crate (or?) and let him eat in peace. Ignore the growling; of course biting is NOT allowed. But I think what you do not realize is that by trying to 'fix' this you are increasing the dog's anxiety level about food, thereby making things worse rather than better. I currently have one 'growler'- he has done it since he was 8 weeks old! At age 2.5 years he has had extensive field training, loves to work, has never bitten anyone and is a VERY out-going friendly dog that most consider a big love-bug.
Make no mistake - I do NOT like this aspect of this dog's behavior, but no dog is perfect. This dog will never be allowed an opportunity to snatch food from a child (tho he loves kids). Part of owning any dog is having the common sense to 'manage' them. |
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When I want to stop a dog from breaking I create a breaking test and set the stage for correction.
IMHO the same applies to this behavior. Set the stage and be ready to enforce the rules. Tim |
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I've shared this story numerous times when folks post about food aggression problems that follow a program of touching a dog during feeding time. In an effort to make my first Chesapeake safe during feeding time, I touched my dog during meal times. I also commanded him to stop mid-meal and picked up the dish momentarily before putting it back down and releasing the dog again to eat. I prided myself on being the "pack leader" and on my dog's obedience. At about the same age that you describe, my male began to freeze over his food and growl. We came down on him like a ton of bricks because we thought that was what we were supposed to do. I have now learned that we gave him a reason to feel that he needed to defend his food. We were the threat that caused his behavior. Upon some good advice, we started to feed him in an out of the way corner and we left him alone. We also built a solid foundation of obedience that could be used to redirect him in other guarding situations and this has been so valuable. This is when I learned for myself what so many say about how you have to fair and firm with a Chesapeake. My male does not like conflict. He'll do anything he can do avoid it, but if you bring it to him and it's not fair, he's gonna let you know.
You now have a resource guarder on your hands. You'll need to manaage this behavior and not provoke it. And, you'll need to own the fact that your approach is the cause of the problem. But, if you change your approach and set the dog up for success, it is possible to see significant improvement. I'm happy to discuss this further with you since I've been through it before. Feel free to contact me at ginadownin@att.net. gina |
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For what it's worth in 1964 I started out with Labs. and then moved on to Peakes. Up till now I have never had a problem with food aggressive dogs " touch wood " what I do with a new pup at feeding time depending on the time of year, in warm weather I feed in the kennels, with a new dog I put the food down for him to eat then sit beside the dog I do not touch or talk to him I just wait till he finishes eating then I talk to him. They are now full of food and content and like the attention they are getting. There is no threat or compation at feeding time. I have a six month old Peake that I have had since he was 6 weeks old and did the same thing only indoors, he is so use to me doing this, he now sits with my 4-1/2 year old Peake waiting for me to put their food down and do not make a move to touch it till I say OK. I sit on a chair between them while they eat, neither one will try and eat from the other bowl it is not allowed and they know it and no checking the other bowl to see if there is anything left in it, just put yourself in their position if you were in a restaurant and you were hungry even if it was a friend that reach over and stuck his hand in your dinner would you just say gee whiz please don't do that or would you have a serious discussion with him. I believe it's the same with dogs and even with my own dogs I do not let my grandson or other children near my dogs when eating. I play it on the side of caution. I find it pretty hard to give advice on a forum on what to do with another persons dog. So to air on the side of safty for everybody involved including the dog feeding time is when he should be left alone. just my 2 cts. worth. Marvin Calhoun
This message has been edited. Last edited by: cahoun, |
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The length of time depends todally on the dog, and no do not go back and try to test him. What you will find is that over time the tendency to guard will go away as he becomes comfortable with the lack of interference, so when You do have to drop something in his dish, take it back with food in it, or bump him while he's eating, he will show no aggression. I can say I have no food aggression with my dogs because I can at any time stick my fingers in their dish, bump them, take the dish away or pet them while they are eating and not have any reaction from them! Just this morning I realized I had given the wrong food dish to my pregnant bitch, picked it up while she was eating, and replaced it with the correct dish after first setting yet another dish down to transfer some food from (right under her nose). She watched me then went back to eating when I told her it was okay and had the correct dish in front of her. My dogs have no reason to guard their food because I've never given them one. Kathy Miller Sandy Oak Chesapeakes |
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I have one that growled at my son as he was walking by and stroked her back...we worked with her - not touching her, but making sure she sat when told before feeding her...I or my sons will ask her to sit while she is eating..but we ALWAYS give her a nice treat for doing so..either toss it in her dish or let her eat it out of my hand...
not long ago I would have opted on the side of 'letting her know who is boss'...but because I know her personality (she gets sulky when she gets corrected - esp if she doesn't view it as 'fair', and she really LOVES her food) I opted to make having me or my sons around while she was eating a pleasant experience - thus the treats or extra bit of food for being obedient...it has paid off quite well (what dog wouldn't rather have a piece of chicken meat over dry food?)... No, I would not trust her (or any other dog for that matter) with small children in her face while eating...just NOT a safe thing to do...And it is not hard to stand close by while the dogs are eating to make sure everything is peaceful.....they are done in just a few minutes anyway... I have witnessed my sons all take other 'edible' objects from her - chew bones, pieces of dead rabbit that the ravens left around, etc...and she never has had an issue..she just really does like her feeding time! Juli |
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I am the boss. Period. I control the food, not the dog. I also control who eats, and when, and where.
I have had a food aggression in the past. I stopped feeding the dog out of the pan, and fed him from my hand. I put the food in the food pan, let the dog see it, but fed him a handful at a time from my hand. It took a while to feed him, but he was crated until the other dogs were fed, then he was fed alone with me in the kitchen. About a quarter way through feeding, I made him sit, I put the food dish on the floor, made him wait a bit(from a few seconds to a minute or so), picked it back up and then fed him agaim from my hand until feeding was done. Any growling or aggressive behaviour was "NOT" tolerated, and stopped with a very loud "NO", the food was put away out of reach, and the dog was made to sit and wait. It took a while to feed this dog this way, but after two or three weeks, the aggressive behaviour was greatly diminished, and he was able to resume feeding time in the kitchen with the other dogs. This worked me. It may not work for you. If you are going to try this, feed a dry food, place it flat on your hand, and keep your fingers and thumb out of the way. We currently have four Chessies, from 5 years to 6 months, all in the house, all get fed at the same time in the kitchen. We currently have no problems with a food aggression, thank goodness. Feeding time is serious business. Don't heckle your dog, or tease it while it is eating. All that does is cause problems, like the one you are describing. Just leave it alone to eat in peace. There is a very good group on the Yahoo boards that deals with agressive behaviour in dogs. If this link works, it can be found here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/agbeh/ Good luck, Elbert This message has been edited. Last edited by: animalx1, |
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I will probably get flamed for this one too but, Im getting used to the fact I need more advice. Since day one both my old golden and my pup have been feed together initially with my hand in the food or hand feeding. The golden was raised this way as a pup along with the one that passed. I also leave a full bowl out always. Neither are over weight and I figured if there was always food mentally why would you fight over it. Until the pup was 4-5 months old no issues when the fighting over control of the bowl started I got in the middle lasted about a week. Now whomever gets there first eats then the other eats kind of funny to watch. Most times my son puts two bowls out then they will both eat at same time. Havent had any issues for 5-6 months. On my post about biting bulls ear it didnt have anything to do with food more excited rambunkshis puppy thinkin my hand was a toy and should be carted off to the next room. He didnt break skin just set me off deffenatly got the point across. I know I ask some dumb questions forgive me Im male I think I know everything.
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I haven't seen anyone get REALLY flamed on this thread  However, I do have a flame retardant suit you can borrow, I can give you some other Web site addresses and you can try it out <vbg>
Back many, many moons ago, I use to free feed and feed all my other dogs together. However, that changed when I got me a brown dawg I don't free feed for several reasons #1 I haven't had it work in a multiple CBR household (I lack organizational skills LOL) and #2 When a dog starts to get sick the first thing they do is stop eating. If your free feeding there is really no way of monitoring what the dog is eating...learned this the hard way and lost a pup due to an obstruction. Here is a link to an interesting study done by Purina on "free feeding" and the results of the study might surprise you...http://www.purina.com/science/research/DogMoreYears.aspx
I believe your pup is just over a year old right? In the next few months (as he matures) meal time could become a disaster. Honestly, is it really fair to your older dog if this happens because he WILL come out the loser. In most cases once they start fighting your only option will be to keep them separate 24/7. I honestly don't see why feeding dogs separately in either a crate or separate rooms is such a big deal to folks. It has certainly made my life easier.
Honestly, if biting his ear brought him back down to earth good for you! However, although it worked for YOU someone else might take your advise, try it and not have a face left! Every dog is different and it is JMO aggression issues should not be evaluated over the Internet but in person by someone who is qualified.
I have lived almost thirty-six years (I think) to a man who is "perfect"...absolutely no apologies needed here and no question asked is dumb one |
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Thanks. The pup is just under a year and the old dog plays hard but he already knows the pup will whoop him no contest had to be hard to swallow. When they do play rough with each other you can tell the pup holds back. Im just AMAZED at how strong, quick and ajile this dog is the goldens were NEVER in the same catigory. Ya the bite the ear thingie could be a hudge mistake for the wrong dog didnt look at it that way.
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I,ve been paying more attention to food and the interaction with the 12 year old golden and the now 1 year old pup. I have now started putting out two bowls seperated by 5 feet or so. I will slide it to each dog. Retraining my 9 year old son to put two bowls out seems tougher than the pooches. Last night my son only put out one and the pup wasnt eating he was guarding it and slightly rolling his lips as if challenging the old dog. Pretty sure the old dog knows what the out come will be, he didnt push. I'm of the impression that the pup is pretty sure he can take him but doesnt really know yet as well as I dont want him to know either or have to take old dog to the vet or worse. My son was there to witness so all should be in place for the future. Would the 1 year mark or so be the maturing age for a chessie figuring out how they can impose their will phyisicaly?
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