Hello All,

I am curious about what methods you have used to work on breaking problems. For reference, my Chessie has failed 3 tests now with a break. Passing two tests between failures. She has completed the test in each situation and is breaking on the honor. In each of the three failed tests, I had a no bird, back in line, run the test, then the running dog broke ahead of me. She stayed steady as the running dog handler hollered "Heal" three times then, when he started yelling "NO!" she broke. Doesn't make any sense. Exact same problem for each failed test.

Thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Paul---

Here's the way I see it. Breaking is a violation of the 'sit means sit' concept and command. I think it's quite possible to work on that off the field - as in everywhere, every day.

Quietly and patiently working on having your dog honor the 'sit' by gradually increasing distractions helps your dog to learn self-control, and self-confidence. So, while I was working on 'sit means sit' as a concept and a command to be obeyed, I would be looking for the dog to start to break and then correct himself and sit back down. I would reward that above all else.

Can't gaurantee it will work. But, it's what I did with my dog. And, while I can't say my dog has never broken in training, it has never occured during a hunt test to date.

Like stated in another post [SIT MEANS SIT] and this starts right from obedience training. Also when my dog is on line he dos,not get every bird or bumper some times after doing a single or multiple marks I have the thrower toss another one out, no him off the bumper or bird and walk of line just to let him know he dos,not get every bird. and if he honors sometimes we will do it for a number of dogs then walk of line. just my 2 cts.worth.

Just my two cents. My young dog broke this weekend at a master hunt test on the first bird down. Not even the flyer. I could read him back in the blind. You can usually tell before you get to the line that something is happening in the dogs mind. I know my young dog cannot take being in the blind long listenng to guns going off. It is easy to say sit means sit but honoring is a whole different animal and breaking is a problem that can always sneak up on you. Hell even my older dog who usually is like a statue will break when the moment is right. You have to get to the line and just honor other dogs with a crop in your hand ready to enforce the sit. That's why it really is necessary to train at least once a week with a group. The other problem which most of us amat run into is not shooting enough live flyers for our dogs. The pros shoot flyer several times a week for their dogs. Most amat don't shoot flyers till they get to the test. That live flyer plays havoc on a dog that only gets them at the test. So when people say sit means sit you need to put your dog in the same situation he broke in and train it.

By the way what level were you running because in senior you are allowed a control break and in the qual you are also, allowed a control break. Master no controlled break.

Snicker as a newbie you will learn about breaking and if your dog doesn't break sometime in his career I would be very surprised if he has any drive. By the way Snicker didn't you just finish the junior level where there is no honor? Wait till you get to senior.

No it is not easy to say sit means sit, it takes a lot of training, when your on honor or on line or just told to sit in a field for 5 minutes or when ever and where ever. When some one tells you their dog never breaks they are standing in 3in. of their own dodo just my 2ct.worth

Just another thought. A break is a signal that the dog is not viewing this as a team sport. A break is the dog saying I don't need you, I'll go get this on my own. One way to solidify this is during training if the dog does not creep or break slowly take two or three steps back as they are watching the go bird down. After the bird is dow give a "No Heel-Burn-Heel". It'll make them think that they crept and teach them that they should pay better attention to where they are in relation to you.

Breakers, you got to love 'em!!! They just have to go.

Even with my 7 yo the day before a trail/test it is steadying drills. Remote sits shooting and throwing clipped birds a few feet across his face, walk -ups with multiple people and launchers constantly shooting,calling with 4,5,6 throws coming from all direction.
For honoring if you have a 1 sided dog move to other side. With 2 sided dogs I step a few feet away from the dog and stand sideways. The dog has never been sent from that position.

HTs are hard on chronic breakers and their handlers because they are usually talented dogs. If they can get a number they'll get a ribbon.

Tim

This message has been edited. Last edited by: timothy carrion,

This might sound harsh. Take the collar off of him and use a gun as a heeling stick in training. But remember you are holding a gun not a crop. Also make sure it is unloaded. The first thing they hand to you in the holding blind is a gun it is like a training tool. When I am doing breaking drills I am trying to get the dog to break so I can make the correction in training. I do not put a collar on the dog at all. I very rarely use the e coller on my dog unless I am doing yard work. I might fix 1 problem but cause 3 more.

Another thing I started doing was getting the dog to sit to the call and shot. It did help me on a walk up 1 time. He started creeping out in front of me and everytime another bird would go off he would sit to the call and shot.

Walkups kill me and I think that has something to do with upland hunting. My dog has broke 2 times and both times were walkups this spring.

Another thing about honoring is reading your dog. The worst thing I can do to my young dog is block his view. If he can't see the working dog he starts creeping. If I give him a clear view he seems to settle down better. Also, I do not talk to either of my dogs or move when honoring. My young dog is like having TNT next to you. Any sound from me or movement aids in his breaking.

The new rules I believe in FT honoring is that you cannot talk to your dog. Not sure in hunt tests.

Been through sit means sit. Solid as a rock. She gets live birds every weekend training. She has had her honoring drills, live banty roosters in front of her with high power dog running by with burn, heal, burn. She has never broke in training. She was a perfect angel in the holding blinds. Laying down and calm.

It doesn't make sense to me why she would break after the running dog broke and the handler was yelling heal, heal, NO, NO, NO. She broke on the second or third NO!.

This exact same thing has happened three times.
No bird, back in holding blind, run a nice test, honoring and the handlers dog breaks. Handler starts yelling and she goes.

Also, two out of three tests were walk ups which she handles just fine.

quote:

By the way what level were you running because in senior you are allowed a control break and in the qual you are also, allowed a control break. Master no controlled break.

Snicker as a newbie you will learn about breaking and if your dog doesn't break sometime in his career I would be very surprised if he has any drive. By the way Snicker didn't you just finish the junior level where there is no honor? Wait till you get to senior.

Running Senior Stake at Evergreen Golden Retriever Club Test 6-28.

The running dog broke but because my dog did not heal and raced the running dog to the bird, I was out.

In your case the answer is "not lucky". I know I have had to honor off certain individuals that talk to much before they call for the birds and after the birds go down. They do more shit to drive both dogs crazy.This has also caused me problems in the honor. It happens in hunt tests and field trials.

Paul, how often are you running test. Just wondering if your testing him too much. Had a very similar problem with Gator. Was testing him to often and he started developing terrible line manners. Starting in the holding blind. Just a thought

we have run 5 SH tests this year. Weekend before we ran a 5 series single marks. She was behaved and didn't give me any signs of breaking. Marked well in the 5 series but, a handle put her out. Previous two tests were passes.

I am most curious exactly how folks train for anti-breaking during a workout. Different techniques using pressure and no pressure.

Thanks for the help, All comments are appreciated as always. Paul Gilmore

My wife just bought a new dvd by Danny Farmer. It's on problems and solutions. Suppose to be very good. I have not seen it yet, but know that it has solutions for creeping and breaking. I work offshore and won't see it for a couple of weeks. I'll let you know if he has any magical solutions

Greg, I think you will really enjoy the
Farmer/Aycock dvd. Yes, they address line manners!! I picked up a copy of the dvd at Sportsman Warehouse in Silverdale, Wa

Paul, I feel your pain, last bird of the weekend and the dog breaks...Many times the dogs in Senior are faced with the short exciting flyer tests. It can be the undoing of many a good dog, especially if they suceed in getting to the bird. Eventually, and it doesn't take very long they figure out the difference between training and trialing...then they got ya. I think you have to quage the particular dog on how many trials/tests weekends in a row you enter. I would rather walk off the line for poor line manners or honoring on lead, then to call for the birds and have the dog breaking.

quote:

Originally posted by cahoun:
Like stated in another post [SIT MEANS SIT] and this starts right from obedience training. Also when my dog is on line he dos,not get every bird or bumper some times after doing a single or multiple marks I have the thrower toss another one out, no him off the bumper or bird and walk of line just to let him know he dos,not get every bird. and if he honors sometimes we will do it for a number of dogs then walk of line. just my 2 cts.worth.

Some good advice.........think it's worth more than 2 cents, though!!!

Norene S.
Nordom Chesapeakes

Paul
Feel your pain, at least once or twice a year the same thing occurs. My clients run their dogs about 80% of the time. So when a break occurs it is usually with one of my guys and their dog at the line and on the honor. Almost every time it is caused by the working dog/handler being vocal or the working dog just plan breaking.

We do a lot of honoring much in the same way cahoun mentioned.

One thing I want to mention, everyday in training no matter what occurs any movement on the line by the dog means they are corrected with a stick/nick etc (as I am sure you and everyone else does) but the mark or marks are picked up while the dog is still on the line and then re thrown. Even if this fat old man has to walk out 200+ yards and reload the wingers with the dog at the line. No exceptions ever,If there is one training rule that I never break is if you move you sit and don't retrieve, if a dog is moving he is not marking.

Marty

Moscowitz said:

quote:

Snicker as a newbie you will learn about breaking and if your dog doesn't break sometime in his career I would be very surprised if he has any drive. By the way Snicker didn't you just finish the junior level where there is no honor? Wait till you get to senior.

Yes, Dad...or Officer, or however the hell you see yourself. Your right, I am a newbie (hmmm...at what point is one no longer a newbie) and I should have sat back and offered no help whatsoevere.

Like they say, 'If you can't break with the big dogs, stay on the porch!'

By the way, 'snicker'-ing at me is one thing. But, taking veiled shots at my dog is low down, and just silly since it's clear you've never seen my dog.