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| Platinum Member |
Thanks for the history. I knew she was the woman who trained with Rex Carr with Chessies. "Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it." CH Silvercreek Murray Samuel (Murray) CGC, WDQ, MH *** 2/16/00 - 12/26/12 Westwind Whispering Cove (Larry) WDQ, MH *** (Murray's Son) LPK Delaware River Whispering Cove (Savage Sam) work in progress Westwind Whispering Cove Jay (work in progress, Murray's grandson, Larry's son) | |||
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To say that this woman was a Giant in the Retriever World would be putting it lightly. I never met her, but heard stories of her and her dogs from folks who respected and admired her as a person and as a handler. Marty | ||||
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Eloise, or Mrs Heller as I referred to her, was just as tough & fierce a competitor as she was a kind considerate lady. My father bought me my first CBR from Eloise and from that time on I was on her list. I still have some of those "marked up catalogs" that Auggie Belmont referred to in his write-up. She would take the time to write this kid telling not only what she was doing but wanting to know how I was doing with my dog. She went as far as having me stay in her house, and driving my dog and I to trials and to Rex's during the summer of'69. Be it CBRs, guide dogs, hunting,horses,tennis, or people when she committed she was in 100%. I am privileged to have known her. Tim | ||||
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Keith, the memorials to Eloise brought back some very fond memories. My first encounter with Eloise was at the first training day my (ex) husband and I attended at Baronland Kennels with our Baron’s Sandy Bay in 1974. We had barely arrived when 3 ladies approached us and wanted to know who we were, who are bitch was, where we got her and after oooing and aahing over, they told us they hoped we would consider doing something with her as she was very nice! The three ladies were none other than Eloise, Nancy Lowenthal, & Helen Fleischmann. That was the beginning of many trips to Baronland that I have fond memories of, and of Eloise, and the long road we embarked on with our Sandy. As I’ve mentioned before, I attended the ACC National Specialty in Pescadero in 1979 (or 1980), and took my young Sam Hill along for a chaperon. Eloise was one of many notables who was also there, and she made it a point to stay in touch with me during the three days I was there. On the last day, she asked me if we could get together the following week in Santa Rosa for lunch and so I could take photographs of her Ch. Cub’s Terrific Thor with the trophies that she/he won that weekend. We met at a park near the restaurant where I took a lot of pictures, then Eloise said she wanted to take a picture of me with Thor so I would have it in my memory book....and she did. It's with all my other "famous" dog pics from that field trial that I will post when I get the album unburied! At lunch she asked me if I enjoyed myself at the field trial and hoped nobody bothered me as she noticed two guys were kind of following me around all weekend. She said she told everyone that I was her neice so thei would leave me alone! I thought that was too cute. Eloise also wrote the foreward for my "History of the CBR by Pedigree" -- matter of fact, she and Nancy Lowenthal are who encouraged me to put it together as a collection and publish it -- and I did all the pedigree research and compilation for the pedigrees that appear in her "Complete Chesapeake Bay Retriever" published by Howell House and I was given an honorary mention in her credits at the front of the book. For one reason or other, I was frequently out at Baronland, trained with her a number of times, and after the death of her daughter Jill 3 or 4 years ago, I acquired the Baronland Kennel sign that sat at the entrance to her Sonoma estate and some of her beautiful silver field trial trophies. Those are just some of the things that were particularly notable in my friendship with Eloise. She was a great lady and went out of her way to mentor many people coming into the breed. Apparently she could also be a real Bear to others if she didn't like them!! She died on March 17, 1984, a date that I will always remember and not just because it was St. Patrick's Day. Kent, the article you printed above is great, but for some reason I can't read the right hand column on either page. I thought perhaps it was my computer at work, but it's also not accesable on my computer here at home. Any way to rescan it smaller? | |||
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This is what I like about this forum every once in awhile someone will post something about our Peakes. and the people that made them a part of history, it is my loss for not meeting a great lady like Eloise Heller Cherry. Thank you for sharing some of her history. Marvin Calhoun Back,Bbbback,bbbbbback, dang do what you want | ||||
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| <Keith Carlson> |
Tim, Kathy and Kent, thanks for sharing those memories of Eloise. Please share any photos you may have when time permits. A very fascinating and colorful woman who certainly gained the respect of a lot of people. Keith | ||
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| Platinum Member |
I have a picture of a women running bear cub I'm wondering if that is her? "Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it." CH Silvercreek Murray Samuel (Murray) CGC, WDQ, MH *** 2/16/00 - 12/26/12 Westwind Whispering Cove (Larry) WDQ, MH *** (Murray's Son) LPK Delaware River Whispering Cove (Savage Sam) work in progress Westwind Whispering Cove Jay (work in progress, Murray's grandson, Larry's son) | |||
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Very cool stuff. Thanks for sharing. Damon | ||||
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| dogapple |
Amid all the applauding of Eloise by her friends and proteges, we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that there was another side of the woman--her contributions to the breed were important, but not always positive. Tom | |||
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| Gold Member |
Keith, thanks for posting this information on this special Chesapeake breeder and handler. Our first Chessie was a "Cub" grandchild and Nancy and Les Lowenthal introduced us to Eloise. She was like the breed - unique - one of a kind. I remember marshalling a WD stake once where Eloise and her husband, Guy, were judging. What a hoot to listen to them! Charlie Sambrailo was a dear friend to Eloise and Helen Fleischmann. The ladies did not always agree, but Charlie kept everything on an even keel. What a privilege it was to have known these "larger than life" folks who were so dedicated to our breed. Pat Puwal | |||
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Eloise wrote 4 books on the Chesapeake Bay Retriever. The first three were published by The American Chesapeake Club and the last one was published by Howell House. Periodically the books will come up on e-bay, or ABE books, or Amazon.com and are worth purchasing if you can afford to. The first book "A History of the Chesapeake Bay Retriever" was published by ACC in 1959. It has a picture in brown tones of Ch. Sasnakra Sassy CD on the front of the book, and a color insert of a lovely print of FC Dilwyne Montauk Pilot on the inside cover. I was fortunate to have acquired the 11 x 14 print that she had it done from, along with some history on the dog that was attached to the back of the print. Some of the contributors of this book were M.E. "Snuffy" Beliveau, Anthony Bliss, Dr. Miles Thomas, Ed Fleischmann, Augie Belmont, William Hoard, & Janet Horn, Dr. John Lundy The second book also entitled "The History of the Chesapeake Bay Retriever" was published by ACC in 1967, and picks up on the history of many notable chesapeakes in our breed where the 1959 book left off. The cover print on that is none other than the same one that appeared in color in the 1959 book of the copy of the painting by Edwin Magargee of FC Dilwyne Montauk Pilot. Some of the chapter contributors were William Hoard Jr., August Belmont, Phil Gagnon, Millie Buchholz, Janet Horn and Dr. John Lundy. The third book is titled "Our Chesapeakes". The cover is a reproduction of an absolutely gorgeous oil painting of Dual Ch. & AFC Tiger's Cub CD that was done by Tom Quinn of Lab field trial fame for Eloise. Alex Starr now has this gorgeous painting after I got a call about three years ago from a friend who told me that the daughter of a famous Chesapeake person had just died, her entire estate was being sold, and among some of the more notable items was this paining of Cub. It was Eloise's daughter Jill Graham, and the sale was local, so I went down there, had to buy the painting, along with some other things I felt were worth saving, and Alex acquired the painting from me as it was way too big for my small house. But I digress....this last book was published by ACC in 1977, and picks up where the previous book left off. The last book Eloise Edited was The Howell House Book, "The Complete Chesapeake Retriever" which did not contain any of the lists of titled and OFA dogs as did the ACC books, but it picked up on the history and famous dogs in the breed where the last ACC book left off. That book has a colored picture of Ch. Cub's Terrific Thor*** on the front cover. Since then Janet Horn of Eastern Waters Chesapeaks, now deceased, along with her husband Dan Horn, produced "The New Complete Chesapeake Bay Retriever" for Howell House which updated Eloise's book. And Dyane Baldwin has since updated the ACC books with an edition that I believe is still available through ACC. All of the books have fantastic pictures and histories of many of the 'famous' dogs and owners and are all worth adding to one's collection.....but they are pricey the older they get. | |||
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are you referring to her 'fondness' of 'rough' dogs? the 2x4 mentality? Juli ________________ Chessies are kinda like potato chips, you know you can't have just one. Skyview Chesapeakes | ||||
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| dogapple |
Partially. Also partly to her shameless pimping for her own dogs and putting down of those of others, such as FC/AFC Copper Topper der Wunderbar, so that some fine dogs didn't get bred much if at all and our gene pool got dangerously narrowed as a result. Instead of she, the Fleischmans, and Augie Belmont breeding the best to the best, each seemed intent on proving his or her line was best by linebreeding to their own. Eloise was also shameless in pushing for placements for her dogs in the old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" fashion. Cub in particular was a frequent beneficiary of this; one of the Chesapeake people who competed regularly against him was still sore years later and once said to me "Cub was a common cur." I know that none of this will sit well with her old friends and admirers, but I think it true nonetheless. Tom | |||
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Tom, I think a lot of this goes on everywhere back then and today with many people. I think we all tend to toot our own horns, and you hear of the politcal cliques all the time in every venue. I'm not poo-pooing what you say is true or not, but it happens and seems to be more obvious with high profile people. Bottom line is that Eloise did a lot for the breed. I don't think it's fair to dredge up negatives whether it be Eloise or anyone else after they are long gone. What's the point? | |||
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Tom what you say is true. Eloise did know how play the game to her benefit the same as the Fleishmans and the Belmonts. In that era of CBRs it was the Mount Joys, the Atom Bobs and the Baronlands all competing for top dog. Eloise and Helen Flieshman were friends but they would both accuse the other of getting bench titles by entering a bunch of their "ugly dogs" against the one they wanted to win to get points faster. They were competitive people. They put in a tremendous effort and wanted/expected to win and did. The sum total of all of their work allowed this breed to survive to today's FT CBR. You will be hard pressed to find many competitive all-age CBRs in the last 40 years that do not go back to a Nelgard's Baron or Atom Bob. Tim | ||||
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| dogapple |
It is a cautionary tale. She didn't walk on water, and glorifying her as if she did is to be false to the past. As a professional historian I can't stand that sort of ancestor worship. Sure, our pedigrees are full of her stuff, but as one of her competitors who is still around puts it "In one generation we went from being truly competitive to having slow, mean dogs." It is a hole that has taken years to dig out of. We are still paying the price. Tom | |||
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I, for one think it is good to know the good, bad and ugly. For the new folks it is very tough to get accurate, true information, let alone any information. As a breed with minority #'s playing the field games, the "bad" and "ugly" information will hopefully help to prevent the "bad" history from repeating itself (as already mentioned) and help the newer folks to understand why the breed is in the position it may be in or not be in and on the "right track". Just too many myths, mis-information, etc. out there as to why this breed is not more successful in the field games. | ||||
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| <Keith Carlson> |
I don't agree with all of Tom's viewpoints but he is entitled to them. As it was then, it is still the same today, folks breeding Chesapeakes are real high on their own "lines", sometimes to a fault. What I appreciate is the overall contribution to the Chesapeake breed that was made by Eloise and those of influence she associated within the retriever field trial world. And it is not a perfect "world" by any means, then or now. I have most of the books she put out about the Chesapeake Bay Retriever and still enjoy them immensely. They inspired me to develop an interest in field trials and owning Chesapeakes in the 1970's. When was the last time you saw an article in the ACC Bulletin with someone with the stature and reputation of a Rex Carr? August Belmont? I even have a copy of an ACC Bulletin with an article about a Chesapeake field dog written by Mike Lardy in the 1980's. Today, this breed could use a few of those prominent individuals like Eloise, Auggie Belmont, Rex Carr and John Lundy (and many others) from long ago (50's, 60's, 70's) to inspire newcomers who want to participate in field activities. We don't have enough people with their stature anymore. Keith | ||
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The simple reason John IMHO that Chesapeakes are not more successful in the field games is that not as many people run Peakes..... Pretty simple math if you look at the numbers.[/QUOTE] I would agree with that statement and would add that today most folks have their dogs(Lab's) on a pro's truck and Peakes don't handle being on a pro's truck like Labs do, for the most part. | ||||
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